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fla45fan
08-04-2010, 11:08 PM
OK I'm very new to this tractor stuff - I recently inherited my childhood home which happens to be on a beach on Lake Erie in WNY state. Years ago we used a jeep to haul logs and back drag the sand to remove weeds and light debris. Nowadays it seems everyone is using tractors to do the job. I hired a contractor to clean it this spring and he used a large John Deere (95 series i think) to lift the logs (anywhere from 10 to 25 feet) before cutting them with a chain saw and stacking them to burn. He then used a rear rake to clear debris and weeds growing in the sand. It looked like the local public beach - clean and neat. The weeds tend to grow (like weeds) constantly causing me to use a weed whacker to clear them every month (3 hours each time). I have access to New Holland, Cub Cadet Yanmar, Mahindra, and JoHn Deere (I think) dealers. I want a front end loader bucket (possibly with some sort of fork attachments) and a rear rake. How much HP will I need ? What specs should I be looking for in bucket lifting capacity? Out of the brands which gives the biggest bang for the buck? Spring clean up after the winter storms is a BIG project - this year over four hours by a professional with a big tractor. Bear with me - I'm trying to spend as little as possible but don't want to have to upgrade because I cheaped out. I'm all ears.

irwin
08-05-2010, 04:30 AM
4 hours of work a year with large tractor. Mmmm

Do you have any other use for a $16k to $40k machine? How much land is included in this beachfront property...

The biggest job you mentioned is moving logs.. they can be cut so a smaller tractor could move them easily, unless you have other chores for it just about any tractor will work.

Good luck tractor hunting...:wave:

bczoom
08-05-2010, 07:42 AM
Welcome to the forum.

I grew up somewhere around where you are now. Our beachfront was between Sturgeon Point and Wendt beach in Derby. At the time, it was also a working dairy farm so we had all sizes of tractors.

For dragging logs and debris removal, everything from a compact tractor in the 25HP range up to the 100+HP JD's worked. In general, it was the compact tractors that did the work.

Things you didn't mention but you're going to have to consider.
How long and how steep is the trail/road that's going to take you back off the beach? Basically, how far from the water edge to where you're off the sand and on hard ground? That soft sand is where 90% of your problems are going to occur. When the sand is soft and dry, there will be times your tractor may start to sink.

You have beachfront property. You have a tractor. Be prepared to launch boats... Our family and friends would bring their boats to our house to launch instead of going to the public launches. For this, you're going to want a tractor with high ground clearance. If the ground conditions underwater were right, we would drive the tractor with the trailer/boat in tow (and all passengers already in the boat) until the boat floated right off the trailer. If the conditions weren't quite right, we would back into the lake and launch in a traditional fashion. Sandbars were also an issue. There's times that we needed to drive the tractor with boat in tow through a couple feet of water out a couple hundred feet, then get up on the sandbar that was out there and launch the boat on the far side of that.

Do you have any use for using this tractor in your lawn areas? R4 (bar) tires are going to be your best selection for beach use. They're just hard on lawns if the ground is soft and you drive over it.

Ahhh, snow belt USA. What's your plans for the winter? How are you going to clean your driveway? How big is your driveway? You'll be getting pretty high winds and snow drifts. You'll want to be considering snow removal as well. The FEL will work but what implement for the back (blade or snowblower)? If you're considering a front-end snowblower, make sure you get the correct PTO setup (as many use a mid-PTO which isn't standard on a lot of tractors).

If you do get the tractor stuck, how are you going to get it out? Is there other (larger) tractors available to drag you out or are you pretty much on your own? If the latter, you don't want to go to big or heavy...

OK, with that as a start, here's my 2 cents.
Something between 25-40HP should be enough.
You'll want a high ground clearance. Don't look at sub-compacts.
4WD will get you a LOT farther than a 2WD in both sand and snow.
If you're mechanically inclined, any decent brand (new or used) should work. If you don't want to work on it, stick with the more major brands and get newer.
Sand is your worst enemy. Look for details on the tractor that have things as protected as possible. This includes boots over U-joints, covers for PTO shafts, sealed hubs...
Tire Chains may also be in your future... Look at the clearance between the tire and the fender to make sure chains can fit through there without hitting your fender.
Tractor weight is not your friend on the beach. The heavier it is, the more it sinks. Larger (wider) tire can compensate for this.
Whatever you get, I'd propose you get a block heater... There will be some winter days your engine will appreciate it.

OK, all that said... I haven't looked at the newer ones but something in the size of a few year old Kioti C25 or C30 should fit the bill. The main drawback in my mind on this particular model would be that it may weigh more than comparable sized tractors from other mfgrs.

For your rake, get a good one... You'll be aiming for weeds but will be hitting slate and other heavier items. Make sure you pick on that can handle it (e.g. buy a rock rake/York rake that's made to handle the rocks but will pick up the weeds and debris as well).

Oh, speaking of snow... below is a pic of our house after a few days of blowing snow off the lake. OK, it was a blizzard. The beach/lake is on the other side of the trees behind the house. As you can see, the only way out was the 2nd story window. It took us a couple weeks to find my Mom's car... which was in the driveway. Some single story homes in the area were completely under snow with the exception of their chimney. We took shovels and broom sticks to dig them out. The broom sticks were to poke through the snow to find the end of their house, then shovels to dig out their door so they could get out.

Doc
08-05-2010, 10:04 AM
Excellent post Brian (BC)!!!!! :thumb: Lots of good info there.

I would suggest not going smaller than a 30hp compact tractor especially if you will be dealing with lots of logs.
You can easily add clamp on forks to the front end loader, they work well and will help with the log work.

Welcome to Net Tractor Talk. I'm glad you found us. have fun tractor shopping and be sure to update us as to what you decide on.

bczoom
08-05-2010, 11:29 AM
PS/EDIT: I said R4 tires. I really meant R1 tires.

fla45fan
08-05-2010, 06:01 PM
Irwin
There will be much more than 4 hours a year. Normally I work between 40-80 hours in the spring doing physical labor just to clean up after the winter storms. The guy I hired this year (a professional) did it in about 3-4 hours using a BIG tractor. Other storms throughout the year just add to the work load. Then the weed whacking every month is between 2-3 hours - a rake would help greatly as well as debris and seaweed cleanup. Yeah I was hoping to get away with much less than $16-40k!

bczoom
wow, lots of info here - thank you
First - yes Hanford Bay outside of Silver Creek. There is access to the beach through a neighbors property - a very driveable incline to soft sand out to the shore. Now there are no boats in the future, but it's not out of the question. I know that there will be no grass cutting or snow removal (brand new snow throwing in the garage). As far as outside help there is a Ford and a New Holland that might be available but I'd rather not depend on that. (The Bobcat down the road doesn't look very capable).
A York rake? I'm guessing that's a type, not a brand. Sounds like it's the ticket for what I want to do. We have mostly sand and small rocks but no slate.

So I need a 25-40hp, 4WD compact with a front bucket and a York rake with bar tires. Any ideas on brands and or models? I have access to New Hollands at Romance & Sons, Mahindra and Cub Cadet Yanmar at Gugino's, and John Deere at Z&M Ag.

doc
gotta look into those clamp on forks - I'm betting they would be great for the really big logs

To all thanks for your advice, ideas and patience.

irwin
08-05-2010, 07:17 PM
Irwin
There will be much more than 4 hours a year. Normally I work between 40-80 hours in the spring doing physical labor just to clean up after the winter storms. The guy I hired this year (a professional) did it in about 3-4 hours using a BIG tractor. Other storms throughout the year just add to the work load. Then the weed whacking every month is between 2-3 hours - a rake would help greatly as well as debris and seaweed cleanup. Yeah I was hoping to get away with much less than $16-40k!
So I need a 25-40hp, 4WD compact with a front bucket and a York rake with bar tires.
.


Okay' sounds like you're a man that will get some use out of a tractor.:D

How much are you able to invest in a tractor and implements? Better yet how much price research have you done?
Example 4wd Kubota L2800HST with FEL for approx ** $18k-19k, same set-up L3400HST $19k-20k..
Point being a new tractor with a FEL is a costly investment, an investment in your health and abilities. I choose those two examples because they are a no frills, solid economy Kubota line. To find a tractor in that hp range with FEL for more than a little under $15k you'll either be used or off-brand.

** location will affect pricing

Not saying anything against used, bought both my tractors used and had good luck with em' but if I was borrowing money to purchase one, I'd most likely go new... any preference?

Doc
08-05-2010, 07:49 PM
For clamp on forks check out paynes forks
http://www.paynesforks.com/

When I got my forks I also bought the clamp on hitch for the loader. Makes it very easy to maneuver a trailer in tight spots.

But first things first. For your tractor shopping get out there and talk to all the dealers close by. Sit in the seats and ask questions. Ask the same questions you asked here and see what they say. You are armed with some knowledge now and that sure will help. The more seats you sit in the better you'll know which you prefer for the ergonomics. When you'll be spending hours in the seat it is time well spent to be sure you get the one that fits you best. After you sit in a few you'll know what I mean.

Good luck and keep us posted how the shopping process goes.

fla45fan
08-05-2010, 08:39 PM
irwin
I haven't done the price shopping yet because I've been totally ignorant on what to buy. I figured I would start with places like this first so I could ask the right questions when I got to the tractor joints. Nothin' like people talkin' 'bout PTO's and York rakes and not having a clue what they're talking about! I would rather buy new but if the right deal presents itself in a used rig . . . sure! It's like my bike - thought I wanted a new Harley but ended up with a used Honda - and I love it. Less money, less maintanance, just as much aftermarket goodies and chrome:cool:

doc
Love 'em - just what I had in mind for lifting logs.

Maybe by next summer I'll be the "pro guy" and be cleaning the other beaches at $100/hour:brows:

Doc
08-05-2010, 10:58 PM
Maybe by next summer I'll be the "pro guy" and be cleaning the other beaches at $100/hour:brows:

That would sure help with that ole tractor payment. :thumb: :D

I normally buy nearly new cars & trucks. I wanted to do the same when I was tractor shopping but found that tractors hold their value better than cars or trucks. I could not find a used one that was priced enough less than a new one to make me buy.

You get a warranty plus you get much better financing on a new one. So if financing your payment can be less because of a lower interest rate and extended term (if you want it).

toyz4roy
08-06-2010, 06:18 AM
I think bc has given you the questions and info to start your search. I started with a lawn tractor then a 16 hp kubota compact and then a 21hp kubota compact. I haven't regretted any of the purchases, each has done more than I expected. I do know one thing, once you do make your purchase you will use the tractor for more than you ever expected and it will be hard to do without if you decide to sell.

bczoom
08-06-2010, 07:25 AM
I have access to New Hollands at Romance & Sons, Mahindra and Cub Cadet Yanmar at Gugino's, and John Deere at Z&M Ag.
Since you're heading over towards Springville and Arcade, give Tri-County Supply a look as well. They sell Kioti and have a lot of implements. They're on Rt 16, IIRC just north of Genesee road.

bczoom
08-06-2010, 09:53 AM
First - yes Hanford Bay outside of Silver Creek.
Is Sunset Bay Beach Club still there? It's been a lot of years, but that used to be one hell of a party spot.

fla45fan
08-06-2010, 07:45 PM
Oh yeah the Beach Club is still there. I used to park my boat out front, drink beer and pick up girls like crazy. Now it's just filled with a lot of young, oh never mind:D

fla45fan
08-07-2010, 09:25 PM
Hey I just checked out the TYM lineup on advise from a friend. I'm impressed! I found the T293HST, a 29hp , 4WD, universal skid steer quick attach FEL with a 5.2 cu ft bucket, 1100lb lift at PP, R4 industrials, and a 5 year warranty for a whopping $12,600 (cash price). A five foot rake adds $300 to the price. The guy spent alot of time with this newbie, insisted on a test drive, and right up front indicated that he would be giving me his best price, no haggling needed.

Rammelt's in Westfield NY (Don) knew his stuff and was confident about his place against the competition, suggesting that I NEEDED to check them out. Said TYMs are the biggest bang for the buck and has had them from the beginning. Also sell Husqvarna lawn mowers, walk behinds to zero turners, chain saws and the likes.

So what do you think? I will be checking out others soon (also saw Cub Cadet for about $4-5k more, as well as New Holland for $4k more.) Neither offered a test drive, gave me some brochures, had a nice chat.

Doc
08-08-2010, 09:37 AM
Very interesting. I don't know the TYM brand well but the little I have heard has been good. Price sounds outstanding.
Buying a tractor is also about finding a dealer who you have a good relationship with and can work with through the years. The dealer you talked to sounded impressive. That's a good thing for sure.
Good luck!!!!!!

Mapleshade
08-08-2010, 07:29 PM
This is what my buddy in Holland uses to maintain 10 miles of beach. After big storms he has found everything, including a whale.
Barry

myyaz33
08-08-2010, 07:35 PM
My opinion is that a T293 would be a bit small for beach cleaning. I really don't think you would get the traction you need. If you like the TYM brand I would like into a T353 or T433

OR you could go get one of those big units like Mapleshade posted.

fla45fan
08-08-2010, 11:31 PM
mapleshade
Now that's a tractor - if I had a mile of beach that would do it

myyaz33
How come? Don't you have a new 273? I was hoping that the 293 would have sufficent HP to do the job. Or should I be worried about the R-4 industrials. The dealer had confidence in the R-4 because they are wider than the R-1 ags and that they were less likely to sink down in the soft sand. I would love a 353HST but I didn't ever price them - starting to be at the high end of the price range with the 293.

fla45fan
08-08-2010, 11:40 PM
TIRES
I'm still tossing tire types around - bczoom suggested the R-1 ags and the dealer is talking about the wider R-4 industrials. This is a combination of hard and soft sand with rocks mixed in. Opinions? I'm hoping to corner a couple of local beach tractor owners this week to get their opinions too.

Doc
08-09-2010, 06:45 AM
Take a walk or drive up and down the beach and see what others with tractors have for tires. R1's (Ag's) will stand taller and have less surface toughing the ground, and they have the most traction of any tractor tire. R4's (industrials) are wider and shorter. This is what I would have thought would be better on sand, but I've never driven a tractor on a beach so I'm totally guessing.

Erik
08-09-2010, 07:38 AM
R4's will give you good "float" than R-1's and better puncture resistance than turf tires.
did you tell the dealer you wanted the tractor for beach duty?
did you ask him about a test drive on the sand?

bczoom
08-09-2010, 07:54 AM
My thoughts/logic/experience with the R1's vs. R4 tires.

First, I need to throw out the disclaimer that most of my tractor on the beach experience was in the 60's and 70's and pretty much all tractors had the R1 tires.

As noted, R4's will float. That would be a good thing, until they started to sink. Once they did so, they've got the issue of so much sand built up in front of the tires, they have a hard time climbing back out as well as grabbing traction on the hard sand below. When the R1's sink, they may get down to the hard-packed sand below the fluff stuff but they're narrower but once there, they can grab the hard-packed sand and can cut their way out.

I liken it to tires on your pickup in the snow. A narrower tire that can cut through the snow and get down to something hard a lot easier.

Now, if you're in that wet sand that's soft (the kind near the water where your foot sinks in), you'll need to be careful regardless of the tire you're using...

myyaz33
08-09-2010, 06:44 PM
mapleshade
Now that's a tractor - if I had a mile of beach that would do it

myyaz33
How come? Don't you have a new 273? I was hoping that the 293 would have sufficent HP to do the job. Or should I be worried about the R-4 industrials. The dealer had confidence in the R-4 because they are wider than the R-1 ags and that they were less likely to sink down in the soft sand. I would love a 353HST but I didn't ever price them - starting to be at the high end of the price range with the 293.

I have 273 and my reference is that not HP related rather it just doesn't seem to get the traction needed. With the 293 are larger tires, you might be ok. I agree with the others, find what type of tires will be best in the sand and you should be alright.

fla45fan
09-01-2010, 10:05 AM
UPDATE

After looking at several brands and narrowing it down to three tractors this is what I found:

Cub cadet EX3200- 32hp, 3 cyl, B/O force 2500, 10" ground clearance, 3 year warranty max - $17,900
NewHolland T1520 - 35hp, 3cyl, B/O force 1602, 10" ground clearance, ? yr. warranty - $18,900
TYM 353HST - 35hp, 4 cyl, B/O force 2975, 13.8" ground clearance, 5 year warranty - $14,500 delivered, out the door.

The first two dealers gave me some time and discussion of my needs, but no demo offered. The TYM dealer not only offered me a test drive (see earlier post) but when I came back a second time with my concerns about the size of the tractor (thanks to myyaz33) suggested he bring the 293 and a 353 to my site to try out.

Anybody want to venture a guess on which tractor I bought and which from which dealer?:waiting:


Rammelt's got the deal on the TYM 353HST!

I spent almost three hours working/playing with it yesterday.

Not only that, he is insisting that he come back and pick up the tractor to do a proper delivery set-up/maintenance package, which also includes putting on brand new R-4's ( didn't know the ones on it were the demo tires!) waxing and ArmorAll-ing it! He also suggested the six foot york rake, but didn't have one so he located one 40 miles in the opposite direction at TSC and brought it with him for the demo.

bczoom
09-01-2010, 10:07 AM
Congratulations!!!

So, how does it work on the beach? What tires are on it now?

Doc
09-01-2010, 02:29 PM
Congrats!!!!! You found a great tractor and a great dealer who will take care of you. That is awesome!!!!!
Pics are required once you take delivery ...we want to see it all shined up cause it won't be that way long I'm sure. Pics of it on the beach would even be better if you don't mind. :D

fla45fan
09-01-2010, 04:27 PM
It really works well on the beach. It came with R-4's, 12.5x20 rears and 27x10.5-15 on the front (I'm not sure what all those numbers indicate - still a newbie here!). I got bogged down in really soft sand once but hit the differential floor pedal and punched right out. The york rake was set up be the dealer and dug out all the weeds but left ruts in the sand. I turned it around (spins 360 degrees - I went 180) and it smoothed everything right out. stacked up some left over wood from a 4th of July fire and pulled a couple of small stumps where I plan on parking it. Dusty as hell now - one good sneeze reminded me to check on the dual air cleaners often. I'll get pix coming soon.

Most of all, many thanks to all of you on educating the newbie here - it really made life easier when I was visiting the dealers.

Doc
09-01-2010, 05:48 PM
No problem. I'm glad we could be of help to you. You are the first beach tractor I heard of on here. :thumb: :D

fla45fan
09-02-2010, 08:29 AM
As requested - PIX!

The new TYM 353HST
The beach
A light debris ready for spring cleaning
One of the reasons for living here (He does good work, doesn't He?)

Erik
09-02-2010, 09:47 AM
excellent news!
and that last picture is great, too!

Doc
09-02-2010, 11:25 AM
Good pics!!!!! Beautiful up there! You are one lucky guy to have the beach like that right out your back door.
Nice looking tractor too!!!!! That'll get the job done.
If you are planning to keep it under the trees I would either cover it with a tarp or buy one of those free standing awnings you can drive under. The stuff that will fall from those trees will surprise you. I made the mistake of parking my boat under some trees for a few weeks. Bad move on my part.

oldschool_57
09-02-2010, 04:19 PM
hello,
were did you buy your tym353hst at
i have been looking for a good tractor ,how do you like it.
who makes this tractor, how does it rate with the name brand tractors
thanks for your input.....

fla45fan
09-02-2010, 10:34 PM
Hey oldschool 57

I'm located in western NY state on the shores of Lake Erie and I purchased my TYM from Rammelt's Farm and Yard in Westfield NY. Now let me say I am quite new to tractors and this forum has been a huge help in getting me to where I am today. I spent the better part of a month researching and shopping and along with alot of discussion here made my decision on the TYM. Based on many factors - TYM is newer to the US market but has the best warranty, most dealers answered my questions but Rammelt's took a newbie and educated me top to bottom on their line of equipment and offered a test drive, pricing was a huge factor and TYM came in as the biggest bang for the buck, ergonomics - seating and controls felt right, name brand engine (Mitsubishi). Read my earlier posts in this thread for my saga.

No understand that I've only had it for two days and of course I'm thrilled. Long term use will always be the test but right now its all good. It's all IMHO and YMMV!

Joeyd
09-03-2010, 12:25 PM
I might have missed it but did you get forks for log removal? With the quick release bucket on the FEL you can get a set of forks to use with the quick release. I didn't like the thought of attaching forks to my bucket and chancing a bent bucket. I use the bucket to smooth my gravel driveway and I perfer a flat bucket besides the quick attack forks have a better lift capacity than the screw down set.

myyaz33
09-03-2010, 12:39 PM
hello,
were did you buy your tym353hst at
i have been looking for a good tractor ,how do you like it.
who makes this tractor, how does it rate with the name brand tractors
thanks for your input.....

TYM makes their own tractors, they have actually made tractors for other companies such and Montana.
Not sure what you mean by name brand but TYM is the brand name. As far as how they stack up against JD, Kubota, Massey, etc.. the have shown to be a great value.

fla45fan
09-03-2010, 08:26 PM
Joeyd

I'm going to look into forks by spring - my neighbor has a set that he made that are really versatile. I'll see if I can get pix in the next few days.

fla45fan
09-11-2010, 10:20 PM
Mini TYM 353HST review on the Other Brands forum (with pix)

Thinking about buying the TSC 3 pt Carry all for $100 instead of forks for now. It would be over double the lift capability, but I am wondering how good it would be digging logs out of the sand.

bczoom
09-12-2010, 08:54 AM
Be careful with that carry-all and some other implements for digging while going backwards. When going backwards, your 3PH lift-arms (the vertical arms that lift your lower lift arms on your 3-point hitch) may be the weakest point.

Also, unless you get that carry-all completely under the log, where the log is then close to the tractor, you'll most likely bend the forks pretty quickly. I've mangled many of those by lifting out towards the end/tips of the fork.

How big of logs are buried? My suggestion would be to consider a sub-soiler.
http://www.tractorsupply.com/agriculture-farming-ranching/3-point-equipment/3-point-ground-engaging-equipment/countyline-reg-sub-soiler-2128333
Drag it behind and snag one end of the log to expose it. You're then pulling forward which is the intended direction for your 3PH and you'll be less likely to break something.

If you have some part of the log exposed, you could also consider a boom pole.
http://www.tractorsupply.com/3-point-equipment/3-point-landscaping-utility-equipment/countyline-reg-boom-pole-2128147
They have their pros and cons. The pro for dragging logs is that you lift the end closest to the tractor so it's digging in when you're trying to grab it. The cons are you need to be more careful. If you lift from the farthest point away from the tractor, you have to be careful of your balance (e.g. it may try to lift the front of the tractor. If you left close to the tractor, you have to be careful of the log swinging action so it doesn't swing towards and into your tractor. They just take a bit of practice. Ohhh, I've bent up a few of these as well. Don't get a cheap one as you'll be disappointed when you start bending it in the first couple uses.

fla45fan
09-13-2010, 08:22 PM
Got it. I figure that I will use the FEL to dig out/ lift the logs and then drag with chains or carry with a carry all or forks. If they are too long then just lift 'em, cut 'em with the Husky, and snatch 'em with a chain.

Hey will the carry all fit through the "fork holes" in pallets? - damn I should have measured how high/thick the actual bars were. I'll bet they're thicker than the pallet forks are.

bczoom
09-14-2010, 07:08 AM
Yes, those carry-all forks do fit on pallets. What you may find annoying is when you snag the angle iron at the end of the forks. I took the ends of the forks that are vertical and cut them back to a 45 degree angle so they slide in the pallets easier.

BTW, I made a toolbox that fits on those forks. Nice for carrying all the wood cutting stuff. There's areas for gas, oil, chains, saws, cant hook, tongs... If you think you may need something like that, let me know.

fla45fan
09-14-2010, 09:23 AM
Got pix?? It sound like just the set-up I could use. I walked down to the end of the beach a couple of days ago - lots of old aged driftwood that burns better than the stuff I was cutting in the back lots a couple of years ago. I cut and split some off the beach last fall and it was great. I have a Husqvarna saw I got from a local tree cutting company for $50 that was beat up a little but it works for me.

bczoom
09-14-2010, 09:42 AM
Couldn't find the pics on my PC but thank goodness for Doc's other forums. Found a thread that has pics.
http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=9068

It could use hosed off...

If you want it, let me know and I'll bring it up your way next time I pass through.

fla45fan
09-14-2010, 10:14 AM
That's a good design - I've got a homemade tool box that my father made years ago that's similar - had it mounted to the back of a Jeep that we used on the beach. It just needs modifications to work better for me - I did find the 10 feet of chain and hooks in the bottom - dragged 'em through the sand to shake off the rust. I might take you up on your offer if I buy the carry all. Thanks!!