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-   -   Kubota Quick Attach Broken AGAIN!! (http://www.nettractortalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=674)

SCDolphin 01-13-2008 08:00 PM

Kubota Quick Attach Broken AGAIN!!
 
5 Attachment(s)
bought a L5440HST with La854 FEL and a WR Long UJ-172 4n1 bucket with a WR Long B72 tooth bar May 07.


Shortly after I bought the tractor and had 50 easy hr on it I started moving some old debris piles and pushing over 3-5 inch gum balls. I noticed that the right side of the 4n1 bucket was loose. The pin that holds the bucket in place had popped out. When I tried to put it back in place, it became obvious that the right side of the quick attack was warped. The dealer said it would not be covered under warranty because I did not have a Kubota 4n1 bucket on it. Problem is Kubota did not offer a 4n1 last year. I now have about 110 hrs mostly light bush hogging and disking. I have not used the bucket until this week end. I was pushing over small gum trees mostly 3-4" occasionally 5". I always center the tree, lift the bucket and use the weight to push the tree enough to expose the root ball. Then I work it out of the ground. Now the right pin has come out again and I have again bent the QA. I can't believe that the QA could be so fragle. Any ideas?


I enclosed some pictures.

shinnlinger 01-14-2008 06:10 AM

SC,

To bad your dealer isn't a little more helpful. What a bummer. Out of fairness to the dealer I suppose FEL's wern't designed for dozer work but you are not the first person to do it, that is for sure. ANd I assume he sold you and installed the bucket didn't he? What did he think you were going to do with it? You drop some significant ching on a machine and they won't help you out with a relativly minor repair=not cool in my book. Hopefully you have other options for tractor stuff in the future.

Now I can't see what is warped in the picture. Is it the plate on the clamshell so it only affects the bucket or the plate ths that is bolted to the loader so everything is effected? Did you have somthing repaired at 50 hours that "fixed" the problem. Is it the flat steel around the pin that could be heated, straightend and reinforced w/ more steel? Is it the pin itself that could be upgraded with a beefer unit from another application?(skid steer?) It doesn't sound like a "stock" repair is sufficient. Is there a difference in the opening/way your aftermarket bucket attaches to the kubota plate?

Probably too late for this, but If it is the plate on the loader itself, how does the dealer know it was bent with your clamshell and not a Kubota peice?

Would drilling/burning a hole at the tip of the tapered pin and installing a small implement pin like the one used on a 3pt keep the bucket on?

larryRB 01-14-2008 06:16 AM

the only thing I see bent is the handle. as far as popping out, my 48 did that new 4 yrs ago, it was a simple fix, the dealer sent me new springs. takes one minute to change them, each. Ask your dealer for more powerful springs for the qa

shinnlinger 01-14-2008 09:17 AM

SC,

New thought, would it help your situation to double up on the pins? Add another next to the existing? I don't know if you have space for this.

Larry,

It sounds like you, Dougster, DKvince and at least one other guy all had this problem with their QA's I wonder why they dont start with stiff springs in the first place?

Curtisfarmer 01-14-2008 01:25 PM

I had same problem new 2.5 years ago....and now I am having same problem with forks popping off under down pressure. I think my pins(the one which are slanted and push down) are worn from hitting the ground all the time and now allow enough travel to release. The Kubota web site has an official warning about this.:eek:

SCDolphin 01-14-2008 06:18 PM

QA
 
My problem is I wonder if the dealer sold me a bucket too big for the loader. I have a friend with similar setup. I new QA is 4-5 dollars. I don't mind spending ther money but if it breaks again 20 minutes after using it then I am out a grand and the problem is not fixed.

DK35vince 01-14-2008 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinnlinger (Post 8059)
Larry,
It sounds like you, Dougster, DKvince and at least one other guy all had this problem with their QA's I wonder why they dont start with stiff springs in the first place?

I forgot all about one other modification I had to make to my QA to make it work right.
My QA pins would not extend into the bucket slots far enough to latch tight to the bucket and the bucket would come off.
I removed the pins from the QA, cut the threaded section off the pins and welded on 1/2" all thread, made the adjusters 3/4" longer than stock, reinstalled the pins, then I shimmed the springs.
Now my attachments stay on tight.
It was an easy fix, but these QA should come working like that in the first place.

Curtisfarmer 01-14-2008 11:16 PM

My dealer installed several washers on the adjustment screws above the pins. Worked but I wonder why the problem is peristent. Now I am bummed cause i noticed a crack in one side of the QA face, probably from a rock getting stuck, which I have noticed before...and not being able to withstand the L48 curl power. Never mind my forks pop off now and I think I may need more pins, and now with the crack, a new QA.:eek:

shinnlinger 01-15-2008 07:21 AM

Curtis and SC,

I think a dealer "stock" fix is not going to fix much for very long and if it your dime anyway I would call around to area welders/fabricators/skidsteer construction guys and get their opinin. After all your dealer is the one who set you up with the faulty setup in the first place and now wont stand behind it, why give him more $$$$

Cracks happen in heavy equipment all the time and the ecomomic fix is to weld it before it gets worse. There are some welded cracks on my excavator dipperstick that were there when I bought it 3 years ago have not moved since I have run it.

I suggest a welder reinforced plate and perhaps heavier pins retroffited from a skid steer/bigger tractor application

larryRB 01-15-2008 08:10 AM

3 Attachment(s)
on my plow, the pins didn't even come close to lining up with the plate. I welded guide plates and more importantly little tabs on the bottom so that the pins had something to grasp. These universal plates really need to be indented some, so when you curl to hook into them, the pins have something to grasp on to instead of hanging in mid air

larryRB 01-15-2008 08:12 AM

3 Attachment(s)
picked the wrong shots let's try again

DK35vince 01-15-2008 09:34 AM

SC,
Judging from your pictures it looks like the crooss tube between the QA plates twisted a little, not letting the right side bottom go against the attachments far enough to latch.
Shouldn't be hard to twist it back (you may need to heat the tube with a tourch).
Another option would be to cut the tube, attach your bucket to line up the QA so everything is straight again, reweld and repaint the tube.

Curtisfarmer 01-15-2008 10:04 AM

LB, Nice cab....I froze my ass off last night and all day plowing with my non-cab L48. How much for your cab?

larryRB 01-15-2008 10:43 AM

had it hand made from a sheet metal shop. with the glass, front and sides and the snap curtins, no holes drilled or near the ROPS, 1100 I think it was. Late this summer I added a Curtis heater defroster, and you can operate easily in a shirt,, Only problem is the snaps,, you get in then snap all the buttons to close it up

Dougster 01-15-2008 05:09 PM

Looks like I was out plowing when this thread got going hot and heavy. I will add my 2 cents and reiterate that installing stronger springs (among other worn & defective part replacements) definitely helped my bucket dropping problem. In fact, the latest replacement springs I ordered through Mahindra are easily twice as strong as the originals and at least 50% stronger than upgraded replacements I had been able to find locally. Each time stronger springs were installed, the number of problems decreased.

But like I've said before: The skid steer universal QA mechanisms on our tractors are simply not in the same strength class as those found on actual skid steers. I wish to heaven I could say otherwise, but go look and compare for yourself. The difference is night and day... and that is understating it! We need to take that reality into account in the selection and use of our FEL attachments or most assuredly we can expect these kinds of problems are going to continue.

Dougster

DK35vince 01-15-2008 07:16 PM

I look at it this way. I spent a couple $ in parts and 1 or 2 hours cutting, welding, adjusting and shimming to solve the problem of my attachments coming off. ( After doing a few simple changes my attachment NEVER come off)
If it was that easy for me to solve the problem on my QA it should be easy for the MFG.s to solve the problem.
Just my opinion.

shinnlinger 01-16-2008 12:28 PM

Ok boys,

You knew it would be just a matter of time before I rased this point as I brought it up here...http://www.nettractortalk.com/forums...read.php?t=643

This is not an "I told you so" but rather a point for a new tractor buyer to consider.

To sum it up, If you are a small time tractor user (as most of us are) Do you need to deal with a QA at all? Sure it increases it's value, but you have to pay more for it. If you are only using forks once in a while could you just use clamp ons instead and save yourself the aggravation and some significcant $$$?

Now if you decide you want a QA you now know what to look out for.

If you are a dealer you now know how to deal a little better with this issue. I think it is obnoxius to take a guys $1000+ on top of $20,000+ and not stand behind a mickey mouse setup. Communicate that this is a problem to the MFG's and get this taken care of. It does not seem like this is a difficult problem to fix.

For those of you stuck with this problem, I will again suggset you deal with a welder to repair the problem. It will cost you less and it will actually fix the problem.

Dougster 01-16-2008 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinnlinger (Post 8167)
Ok boys,

You knew it would be just a matter of time before I rased this point as I brought it up here...http://www.nettractortalk.com/forums...read.php?t=643

This is not an "I told you so" but rather a point for a new tractor buyer to consider.

To sum it up, If you are a small time tractor user (as most of us are) Do you need to deal with a QA at all? Sure it increases it's value, but you have to pay more for it. If you are only using forks once in a while could you just use clamp ons instead and save yourself the aggravation and some significcant $$$?

Now if you decide you want a QA you now know what to look out for.

If you are a dealer you now know how to deal a little better with this issue. I think it is obnoxius to take a guys $1000+ on top of $20,000+ and not stand behind a mickey mouse setup. Communicate that this is a problem to the MFG's and get this taken care of. It does not seem like this is a difficult problem to fix.

For those of you stuck with this problem, I will again suggset you deal with a welder to repair the problem. It will cost you less and it will actually fix the problem.

Ha!!! :D I was waiting for you to find this thread Shinn! ;) What took you so long? :tiphat:

Please let's not confuse the need for and extraordinary utility of SSUQA with the fact that most CUT FEL-mounted tool carriers and their latching mechanisms tend to be lighter and less heavy-duty than actual skid steer-mounted tool carriers and their latching mechanisms. That is simply a fact of life in the competing worlds of compact tractors and construction equipment today. And yes, sometimes CUT end users will need to make some adjustments and/or mods to their tool carriers and latching mechanisms to achieve and maintain a perfect fit.

This is not so much a dig at CUT FEL components as it is high praise for the extraordinary strength of parts found on most modern name brand skid steers. But make no mistake: If you use (or abuse) heavy-duty SSUQA attachments long enough and hard enough on any type of carrying vehicle, at some point something is probably going to wear out, go out of adjustment or break. Sometimes it will be the tool carrier components and sometimes it will be the attachment... but this is not a reason to shun or abandon the SSUQA system. The plain fact is, when it comes to true universal interchangeability for attachments in this size category, it's pretty much all we've got.

It's clear to me that some SSUQA attachments... typically those intended principally for monster skidsteers and larger tractors... may not be well-suited for use on our CUT FELs. But the fact is that sometimes we are gonna use them anyway. This is where some user judgement comes in... cost vs. benefit must be weighed... special care should be taken... but with a little common sense, most of us ultimately do just fine. :)

Dougster

SCDolphin 01-17-2008 12:37 AM

Quick Attach Broken Again
 
6 Attachment(s)
This is a partial letter I sent to Mr Long @ WR Long who made the 4n1 bucket. H has a good reputation and actually answers his on emails. They are in NC

I have been looking at tractors for about 4 years. I finally bought a Kubota 5240 HST with the LA 854 loader from ------ Tractor in -------- SC. I wanted to stay with all Kubota stuff so started out with their 4n1 bucket controller, valving etc. I originally had problems with the bucket which is a UJ172 with the STB72 toothbar. I went with the dealer recommendation except I wanted the toothbar that was listed that I could back drag with and would not leave tooth marks.

My first problem was that the jaws would not stay clamped and with in a minute the bucket would open enough that the log or brush would fall out. I took it back and they replaced the valve with one of yours (picts included). Now it still opens about 1/4 inch but will stay tight enough to move debris. Maybe this is normal but my loader does not leak down nor does the 3 point hitch with a box blade on it.

My second problem involves the bucket popping off. Let me say I am a 59 year old ER physician and I am very careful with my equipment. This is my second tractor but 1st 4n1 bucket. My first hint of trouble started when I was moving an old debris pile. Within 30 minutes of moving dirt and logs, I noticed that the right side of the Kubota quick attach came loose. When I tried to reattach the right side I found that I could not because something seemed to be bent. It turns out that it was the quick attach. When I went back to the dealer they said Kubota would not warranty it because I did not have a Kubota bucket on it. When I bought it May 07 Kubota did not have a 4n1 bucket. I apologize for the long winded explanation but I really need to figure out what is going on. So anyway I had a new QA put on not under warranty on my new tractor and put about 50 hrs on it but was afraid to use the bucket. This last week end while the ground was finally wet I started pushing down some 3-5 " gum trees. I simply would raise the bucket, adjust it so the cylinders are closed as much as possible (curl) then let the bucket down on the tree which causes the root ball to pop up. I would then level the bucket and push the tree out of the ground. I always center the object I push. With in a few minutes I notice the right side of the bucket had become unpinned and again it looks like the QA is twisted again!

Have I purchase the wrong size bucket? Is Kubota that fragile? Do you have any ideas?

Dougster 01-17-2008 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCDolphin (Post 8254)
My second problem involves the bucket popping off. Let me say I am a 59 year old ER physician and I am very careful with my equipment. This is my second tractor but 1st 4n1 bucket. My first hint of trouble started when I was moving an old debris pile. Within 30 minutes of moving dirt and logs, I noticed that the right side of the Kubota quick attach came loose. When I tried to reattach the right side I found that I could not because something seemed to be bent. It turns out that it was the quick attach. When I went back to the dealer they said Kubota would not warranty it because I did not have a Kubota bucket on it. When I bought it May 07 Kubota did not have a 4n1 bucket. I apologize for the long winded explanation but I really need to figure out what is going on. So anyway I had a new QA put on not under warranty on my new tractor and put about 50 hrs on it but was afraid to use the bucket. This last week end while the ground was finally wet I started pushing down some 3-5 " gum trees. I simply would raise the bucket, adjust it so the cylinders are closed as much as possible (curl) then let the bucket down on the tree which causes the root ball to pop up. I would then level the bucket and push the tree out of the ground. I always center the object I push. With in a few minutes I notice the right side of the bucket had become unpinned and again it looks like the QA is twisted again! Have I purchase the wrong size bucket? Is Kubota that fragile? Do you have any ideas?

I think I'd be inclined to jump over the local dealer's head and go right to Kubota or perhaps a bigger, better Kubota dealership, if possible/appropriate. That highlighted statement just ain't right. You didn't buy SSUQA on your loader to be stuck with using nothing but Kubota buckets. :rolleyes: That is pure insanity.

Didn't I read somewhere... perhaps on that other tractor forum... of a person in a similar situation who DID get his Kubota dealer to replace his similarly damaged Kubota loader's SSUQA components under warranty??? :confused: Or am I dreaming again?

Dougster


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