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Tools, Equipment and Repair Forum Welders, drill presses, Saws, torch and plasma cutters etc.

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  #1  
Old 03-18-2011, 03:26 PM
ghautz ghautz is offline
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Default Rototiller problem

The dog clutch on my Troybilt rototiller is frozen to the shaft in the disengaged position. I have been soaking it with PB Blaster for several days, but that doesn't seem to be doing much. It is about 2" back in an approx 2" diameter hole, so it is essentially impossible to get a gear puller on it. Do any of you experts out there have any suggestions? Digging the garden with a shovel is hard on the back and SWMBO just informed me that we will have a garden this year.
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Old 03-19-2011, 02:49 AM
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Default Big Hammer

Penetrants are only effective when they can work their way in and something frozen solid often prevents that. Take a SMALL hammer and any steel shaft that will fit in there and tap on the pieces to make them vibrate. I use a spray bottle so I can spray a little penetrant now and then between tapping sessions.

If that fails, and you have a torch, try some heat and tapping. If you don't have a torch, a heat gun will work too. No heat gun?...try a hair blow dryer.

If it is a solid, heavy built assembly, and you can pound it in the direction it needs to go...smack it a good one while screaming "Frick'n'fracken.
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Old 03-19-2011, 11:01 AM
bczoom bczoom is offline
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bczoom is just really nicebczoom is just really nicebczoom is just really nicebczoom is just really nice
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When PB doesn't do it, try Kroil. That will loosen pretty much anything.
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Old 03-19-2011, 09:34 PM
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Thanks for the suggestions.

I have tapped it some with a brass rod and hammer. I'll try it the way you suggested, Gary. I have been leery of using heat because there is quite a bit of old grease around and behind the part. I can't get behind it to smack it a good one, tho that would certainly be most satisfying right now.

BC--I will put Kroil on my shopping list for my next trip to civilization.

If SWMBO seriously wants a garden, maybe she will agree to a 3 pt tiller.
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Old 03-19-2011, 10:44 PM
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Default greasp

I have not found a problem with heat and grease EXCEPT for burning seals etc. I often have oil on fire, but it is sluggish generally and when I finish a weld, or whatever, I splash a little water on. This does NOT apply when there is an important rubber part, or seal etc....but just oil or grease is never a problem to me. Paint will be damaged, however. If your clutch has a material face and would receive the heat directly I would give that consideration. Sometimes I wrap close areas with a wet rag before I start. I tend to think you are looking at a problem that will require heat though. Simply the swelling and contraction when it cools can free the part. You will find that the penetrant burns nicely too.
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Old 03-20-2011, 02:45 AM
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Default Whoops!!!

I failed to mention that now and then the smoke seems to be following me around...and tonight was one of those times! I have a wood floor on one half of my shop, so I'm used to a little smoke when I weld, but tonight I noticed it was closer!
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Old 03-20-2011, 01:10 PM
ghautz ghautz is offline
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The reason I am concerned about heat is that there is a seal right behind the part. Replacing the seal would mean total disassembly of the power unit gearbox. The clutch, btw, is just a chunk of metal with three projections (cogs, teeth?) that mate with a similar part in the rear gearbox.

I have thought about using a welder to run a heavy current through the clutch and shaft to heat them. Maybe that won't ignite the grease??
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Old 03-20-2011, 02:42 PM
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Default un-clutch

I don't think you can heat with electricity in that manner. For heat you need resistance and that steel is too good of a conductor...no resistance.

I'm not at all clear about that frozen part. It doesn't sound like a clutch at all, but rather a simple sliding dog similar to the lower unit of an outboard motor. It's In or Out and that transition must be made suddenly and at idle. If that's the case, and they AREN'T meshed now, and the dog is between you and the transmission, then it seems that a good whack would be driving it toward connection. I know that isn't possible because you said so already, so I obviously don't have the picture.

I'm gonna make a guess that the 3-tooth gear slides on a keyway which enables it to maintain connection with the engine. The most likely place for it to rust together would be in that keyway. Good penetrant and however much heat you can safely apply...with a little encouragement from the hammer, is the best approach based on my vague understanding. Actually, a BIG hammer would be best BUT don't swing-away. A tap from a heavy hammer still carries strong inertia energy that a small hammer doesn't. There must be bearings on the ends of that shaft so caution is advised.
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Old 03-20-2011, 08:15 PM
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Another thought....I have used my small air-hammer, using a punch, to send some hi-speed vibrations to a few things that need to be "persuaded" but where a hammer might mess things up. Might create some cracks in the rust to help the penetrating oil get thru.
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Old 03-20-2011, 09:18 PM
ghautz ghautz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary66 View Post
...
I'm not at all clear about that frozen part. It doesn't sound like a clutch at all, but rather a simple sliding dog similar to the lower unit of an outboard motor. It's In or Out and that transition must be made suddenly and at idle. If that's the case, and they AREN'T meshed now, and the dog is between you and the transmission, then it seems that a good whack would be driving it toward connection. I know that isn't possible because you said so already, so I obviously don't have the picture.
...
It is as you describe. The parts manual calls it a "dog clutch." The only way to get to it is from the mating end. The back side is inside the housing. That is why I can't give it a good whack.

There is a seal, retaining ring and bearing behind the clutch. The shaft includes a worm gear, then another bearing, shims, a cap and another seal. I'm not sure what would suffer most from a good whack, but any damage would require more work to repair than I want to get into. It might be easier to drill a few holes in the clutch to break it apart and replace it.

Might try urednecku's suggestion. That would be an excuse to get another tool.
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Old 03-21-2011, 12:59 AM
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Urednecku offered a great suggestion. I don't have that tool so I wouldn't know what it would do...but I thought about that idea too. Maybe I'll see about getting one also. Since that dog doesn't just slide in a keyway, but also revolves, vibration would be better and safer. Ain't this fun?
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Old 03-21-2011, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary66 View Post
... Ain't this fun?
It's the kind of fun I can do without when I need the tiller today. Besides, I hear the crappie are biting.
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Old 03-22-2011, 02:15 AM
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I've got tons of Crappie but they are small here. How 'bout where you are?
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Old 03-22-2011, 08:49 PM
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One pounders are reportedly common where I am headed tomorrow. I'll believe the reports when I see the fish, though. I haven't caught any crappie that size since I was six or seven years old.

I'd rather catch 6 inch crappie than any size bass. They are better eating.

Trout fishing was my favorite when I was growing up in Colorado in the '50s. I was going to include a picture, but the system here wants a url; I'm not set up for that.
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Old 03-22-2011, 09:23 PM
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We're off-topic now and could get slapped, but....I think the URL is simply the address of something from the internet and I know it isn't needed to post pictures. I post JPG (or JPEG) from my computer.

2 icons to the right of the smiley face, above, is for attachments. Click on it.

Click on the top "Browse" and select the location of your picture. Mine is always on Desktop because I resize to 600X800 (as I recall, at least somewhere in that area). Then I "save as" to Desktop with a resolution of about 35 to stay under the allowed 195KB's.

Click on that resized picture and then the program gives you a chance to select another picture (or whatever attachment) for about 8 attachments. To the right of your screen hit "Upload". Wait until the word "close" appears near the bottom of the page (I think I have to scroll down for it), hit "close" and the attachments will transfer. They DO NOT show in the text box, you have to scroll down to see verification of them. When done composing hit 'Preview Post" and you should see your text AND the pictures. Then go back to "Post".

This was all from memory so may be off a little there and here, but I think it will get your pictures posted.

I like the free version of Irfanview for picture editing.
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Old 03-24-2011, 08:38 PM
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I found the problem with posting pix. I started with the "Quick Reply" option. There the only picture option is the "Insert Image" icon, which asks for a url. The "Go Advanced" button below leads to the option you mentioned. I am sure I have used it before, but I have been told that as one ages, the memory is the second thing to go. What is first?
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Old 03-25-2011, 03:47 AM
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Great! So where's the pic?

Today was test day for the new tractor I'm building. First thing I spun the axle key! Second thing, the tube stem failed just as I was getting the wheel...with it's wheel weight, hammered back on the axle. I'm already hating that damned green demon.









g
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Old 03-25-2011, 01:24 PM
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This is probably as far off topic as you can get, but here it is. Remember, this is scanned from a 50+ year old picture, taken with a cheap camera by a rank amateur.
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Old 05-29-2011, 06:57 AM
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That pic got me thinking...maybe I should go fishing instead of working/repairing stuff. I need a break!
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