30 or 35 series?

EDL

New member
Actually the entire 30 series line uses the 3-cylinder turbo engine. This is how they get the tier-III rating for emissions.

The series PDF brochure for the 25 series shows various info depending on which model you look at. I think Mahindra needs to do some updating on those, however if you look at the larger tractors in the 25 series they are showing the same 152.4 cu. in. 3-cylinder used in the 30 series.

The 35 series line shows a 115 cu. in. 3-cylinder for the 3535 and 4035 and the 5035 shows a 153.9 cu. in. 4-cylinder.

The 7060 has the same 152.4 cu. in. turbo 3-cylinder as the 30 series.

and the 8560's show a 203.2 cu. in. turbo 4-cylinder.

I think some of the brochures for the smaller tractors are out of date. All of the ones showing the turbo engines actually say "Tier III" in the title and I think these are up to date.

Confusing, eh?

I agree about cubic inches. That was a saying I learned many years ago in my hot rod days..."there is no substitute for cubic inches". However, when it comes to a diesel, and especially a diesel tractor engine, things get a little different.

First, tractor engines are generally very simple in design. You typically don't find all the fancy HP making head, combustion chamber, valve designs like you do on road going engines. This helps keep costs low because you have a lot of steel in the chassis, etc and steel ain't cheap these days. Tractors don't run HP that would seem equivalent to a comparably sized road vehicle. For example, the 7060 is a bit of a beast for a tractor its size. It weighs about the same as my '04 ram 2500 diesel 4x4, yet the tractor only has 67 HP, my truck makes 325 HP. Imagine dropping that Cummins in a 7060 chassis...whooo!

A turbo on a diesel engine that needs to make HP is practically a necessity, unless you want a huge engine that weighs a LOT (not that diesels aren't heavy anyway). A turbo helps a diesel burn a lot cleaner (hence their use for the newer tier III emissions requirements on tractors). Prior to tier III normally aspirated diesels were just fine on tractors in the class we are looking at because it's easy to make the HP ratings without the turbo.

Cons for the turbo are turbo lag, which means low end grunt is lost until the turbo spools up. Secondly, the turbo, especially on the small tractor engines, is probably spinning up to 200,000+ RPM under load. This means it's going to be sensitive to oil quality and flow. More maintenance. Since tractors tend to operate in dirty or dusty environments, good air filtration is needed also (along with increased maintenance on it as well).

Pros for the turbo include cleaner emissions, higher HP from smaller, cheaper engines and less cavitation erosion due to lower compression ratios. The latter is definitely a pro on the wet sleeved engines. Just ask a Ford Super Duty owner about having to put additive in the coolant to help prevent this :yuk:

Since the Cummins is parent bored, it doesn't suffer issues due to cavitation erosion nearly as much and thus, no additive needed.

Either way, turbos are most likely here to stay on anything diesel because of the emissions requirements. Sadly, a well tuned diesel (turbo or not) will smoke like a freight train. Diesels aren't stoichiometric like a gas engine, so basically the more air and fuel you can shove in it the more power it makes without as much regard for the mixture ratios.

The Cummins in the Dodge pickups is horribly de-tuned. That engine is capable of 1500-2000 HP, but talk about smoke!!! Wheeehaw!
 

Doc

Admin
Staff member
Gold Site Supporter
Interesting stuff EDL. :thumb:
Good luck with your tractor shopping. Sure sounds like you are on the right track. :thumb:
 

Erik

Member
top and tilt means using a hydraulic top link and replacing the adjustible side link for the right 3 point arm with a hydraulically adjustible one as well. This lets you adjust your left/right tilt and top angle without leaving the seat.
very handy if you do a lot of dirt work with a box blade.
 

Bindian

Member
Actually the entire 30 series line uses the 3-cylinder turbo engine. This is how they get the tier-III rating for emissions.

The series PDF brochure for the 25 series shows various info depending on which model you look at. I think Mahindra needs to do some updating on those, however if you look at the larger tractors in the 25 series they are showing the same 152.4 cu. in. 3-cylinder used in the 30 series.

The 35 series line shows a 115 cu. in. 3-cylinder for the 3535 and 4035 and the 5035 shows a 153.9 cu. in. 4-cylinder.

The 7060 has the same 152.4 cu. in. turbo 3-cylinder as the 30 series.

and the 8560's show a 203.2 cu. in. turbo 4-cylinder.

I think some of the brochures for the smaller tractors are out of date. All of the ones showing the turbo engines actually say "Tier III" in the title and I think these are up to date.

Confusing, eh?

I agree about cubic inches. That was a saying I learned many years ago in my hot rod days..."there is no substitute for cubic inches". However, when it comes to a diesel, and especially a diesel tractor engine, things get a little different.

First, tractor engines are generally very simple in design. You typically don't find all the fancy HP making head, combustion chamber, valve designs like you do on road going engines. This helps keep costs low because you have a lot of steel in the chassis, etc and steel ain't cheap these days. Tractors don't run HP that would seem equivalent to a comparably sized road vehicle. For example, the 7060 is a bit of a beast for a tractor its size. It weighs about the same as my '04 ram 2500 diesel 4x4, yet the tractor only has 67 HP, my truck makes 325 HP. Imagine dropping that Cummins in a 7060 chassis...whooo!

A turbo on a diesel engine that needs to make HP is practically a necessity, unless you want a huge engine that weighs a LOT (not that diesels aren't heavy anyway). A turbo helps a diesel burn a lot cleaner (hence their use for the newer tier III emissions requirements on tractors). Prior to tier III normally aspirated diesels were just fine on tractors in the class we are looking at because it's easy to make the HP ratings without the turbo.

Cons for the turbo are turbo lag, which means low end grunt is lost until the turbo spools up. Secondly, the turbo, especially on the small tractor engines, is probably spinning up to 200,000+ RPM under load. This means it's going to be sensitive to oil quality and flow. More maintenance. Since tractors tend to operate in dirty or dusty environments, good air filtration is needed also (along with increased maintenance on it as well).

Pros for the turbo include cleaner emissions, higher HP from smaller, cheaper engines and less cavitation erosion due to lower compression ratios. The latter is definitely a pro on the wet sleeved engines. Just ask a Ford Super Duty owner about having to put additive in the coolant to help prevent this :yuk:

Since the Cummins is parent bored, it doesn't suffer issues due to cavitation erosion nearly as much and thus, no additive needed.

Either way, turbos are most likely here to stay on anything diesel because of the emissions requirements. Sadly, a well tuned diesel (turbo or not) will smoke like a freight train. Diesels aren't stoichiometric like a gas engine, so basically the more air and fuel you can shove in it the more power it makes without as much regard for the mixture ratios.

The Cummins in the Dodge pickups is horribly de-tuned. That engine is capable of 1500-2000 HP, but talk about smoke!!! Wheeehaw!

Guess I need to get to my dealer and pick up new brochures. Now that I think about it, my 30 series brochure is pre Tier III!
Turbos have came a long way since the 80s when I worked on them on small airplanes. I agree turbos are here to stay. Emissions will keep getting tighter and we will see turbos going on smaller engines.
I have a 2002 Cummins Ram 2500 with 270,000 miles and just bought a 2003 Cummins Ram 3500 with 145,500 miles. Both are beasts and I can not imagine either of them getting more power.

hugs, Brandi
 

EDL

New member
AH! Brandi, you're an A&P????

Dang. I started flying at 14 years old in the CAP. Never got a commercial ticket (didn't want to be a bus driver). Now I am flying powered paragliders (actually I teach it too). Great little aircraft. Fits in the trunk of your car and is super safe to fly, not to mention a ton of fun.

I've flown a lot of different birds back in the day. I even have an hour in my log book in an F-4 Phantom!!! As a cadet in the CAP, we all got rides in the F-4 one year at Patrick AFB, I talked the pilot into letting me have the stick and I zoomed around the sky for an hour. I put the time in my log book and the pilot signed it! :mrgreen:

All this talk about turbos and tier III engines got me to wondering. These are relatively new. It looks like the 30 series is nothing but a reincarnated 00 series and as we know, the 60 series is the new 20 series. I wonder how these engines are going to hold up over time. Oh well, no sense in worrying about it, it's not as if you can get something different from them anymore.
 

EDL

New member
Oh, and as far as the cummins goes, heh, the piddly HP they put out in the pickups is nothing. Just plug in a tuner box and dial up a few hundred extra ponies and lb-ft of torque at the push of a button.

The engine in the rams are certainly not the weak point, the transmission is. You can make 700-800 HP on that engine for relatively cheap and think nothing of it, but it'll kill the transmissions in no time (both manual and automatics). If you got the money though, a new billet tranny will take the HP no sweat, but will set you back about $5,000+ depending on just how heavy duty you want it.

I'm just glad I got my 5.9L "600 motor" before the new 6.7L cummins came out. They are stifled by that new exhaust regeneration crap. Almost a whole liter larger in displacment and only make 25 more HP from the factory. :yuck:
 

Bindian

Member
AH! Brandi, you're an A&P????

Dang. I started flying at 14 years old in the CAP. Never got a commercial ticket (didn't want to be a bus driver). Now I am flying powered paragliders (actually I teach it too). Great little aircraft. Fits in the trunk of your car and is super safe to fly, not to mention a ton of fun.

I've flown a lot of different birds back in the day. I even have an hour in my log book in an F-4 Phantom!!! As a cadet in the CAP, we all got rides in the F-4 one year at Patrick AFB, I talked the pilot into letting me have the stick and I zoomed around the sky for an hour. I put the time in my log book and the pilot signed it! :mrgreen:

All this talk about turbos and tier III engines got me to wondering. These are relatively new. It looks like the 30 series is nothing but a reincarnated 00 series and as we know, the 60 series is the new 20 series. I wonder how these engines are going to hold up over time. Oh well, no sense in worrying about it, it's not as if you can get something different from them anymore.
EDL,:wave:
Yep, been an A&P for 32 years.:cool: Straight from high school. Got my A&P certificates the first year I was old enough. I was going to be a corporate pilot, but didn't like where they waited and ate while waiting on their bosses. I would rather just fly and not be a pilot. Dad flew B-17s and B-24s in the Great War and that was always my inspiration. While growing up I told him I would buy a B-17 and he could teach me to fly it.:thumb: That is, until I got into A&P school and found out how much it would cost just to operate those 4 engines an hour.:rolleyes: I had a friend in CAP. His Dad was a Col. with a V tail Bonanza.
The service manager where I bought the Big RED Beast has set up a new shop. He has been in tractors forever and he said all colors (brands) of tractor mechanics are having their fits with Tier III engine emission problems.:eek: Not the engines, but the new add on emission stuff. Kinda like the 2007 Cummins sooting up and having sensor problems, along with R&Ring new fangled turbos.........there's that five letter word again..........turbo.:pat: Makes me glad I didn't buy a 2007 Cummins and instead bought a 2007 Mahindra 6520!!!:cool: Seems the turboed 7520 has all kinds of problems and the non turboed 6520 does not. But then again I don't have a 17 gpm hydraulic pump.:eek:
hugs, Brandi
 

EDL

New member
My dream was to be a fighter jock and fly F-16's (with the ultimate goal of being a Thunderbird pilot, I love aerobatics!), either that or fly the venerable A-10, those things just rock!

I had a full-ride scholership to Embry Riddle (their main campus was 15 minutes from my house...I grew up in Daytona Beach, Fl) and with ROTC all I had to do was graduate. I lost the entire package when I went for an Air Force flight physical (since I was taking a flying program that would have included aircraft time via ROTC). I failed the color vision portion of their test. In a matter of about 15 seconds I went from excited fighter jock gonna-be to just another kid in town with a broken dream. I took it kinda hard, went on a drunken binge for about 6 months then ended up joining the Army as an MP. Spent 4 years at that then switched over to the Air Force as a Russian linguist of all things (it was kinda cool, I was Berlin when the wall came down), then went into IT about half way through my career. I retired from the Air Force in 2006 San Antonio.

I'm now working as the senior IT tech at the service desk for Armstrong Group of Companies in Butler, Pa. They have a pair of Citation jets. The Excel is the older one and they just bought a brand new Citation Sovereign. I hit it off with the company A&P and he's going to start taking me along when they do "test" flights :mrgreen: I'll get me some turbine time one way or the other! :biggrin:

So, my flying "career" has consisted of paying to fly instead of getting paid to fly and begging, borrowing and stealing stick time in anyhting I can get.

I almost bought a nice old Piper Colt when I was in California for tech school in the AF, but thought better of it after considering the maintenance and hangar/tie down fees, insurance, etc.

I made a stab at a rotor rating with thoughts of maybe flying for the Highway Patrol (I can pass the FAA color vision test just not the military's), but I just couldn't afford to rent helis. Even a tiny Robinson R-22 back then was $110 an hour wet rate.

So now, I put around the sky on my powered paraglider, go to fly-ins when I can and catch the occasional airshow. I'm kinda considering a go at gyroplanes as I can get a part 103 legal one pretty cheap. Then again, with all the recent ticket changes, it wouldn't be hard to get rated in a heavier one and get the maintenance ticket for it as well. Buuuut, I got more important priorities right now.

What you trying to drive that you need a 17gpm pump?
 

Bindian

Member
My dream was to be a fighter jock and fly F-16's (with the ultimate goal of being a Thunderbird pilot, I love aerobatics!), either that or fly the venerable A-10, those things just rock!

I had a full-ride scholership to Embry Riddle (their main campus was 15 minutes from my house...I grew up in Daytona Beach, Fl) and with ROTC all I had to do was graduate. I lost the entire package when I went for an Air Force flight physical (since I was taking a flying program that would have included aircraft time via ROTC). I failed the color vision portion of their test. In a matter of about 15 seconds I went from excited fighter jock gonna-be to just another kid in town with a broken dream. I took it kinda hard, went on a drunken binge for about 6 months then ended up joining the Army as an MP. Spent 4 years at that then switched over to the Air Force as a Russian linguist of all things (it was kinda cool, I was Berlin when the wall came down), then went into IT about half way through my career. I retired from the Air Force in 2006 San Antonio.

I'm now working as the senior IT tech at the service desk for Armstrong Group of Companies in Butler, Pa. They have a pair of Citation jets. The Excel is the older one and they just bought a brand new Citation Sovereign. I hit it off with the company A&P and he's going to start taking me along when they do "test" flights :mrgreen: I'll get me some turbine time one way or the other! :biggrin:

So, my flying "career" has consisted of paying to fly instead of getting paid to fly and begging, borrowing and stealing stick time in anyhting I can get.

I almost bought a nice old Piper Colt when I was in California for tech school in the AF, but thought better of it after considering the maintenance and hangar/tie down fees, insurance, etc.

I made a stab at a rotor rating with thoughts of maybe flying for the Highway Patrol (I can pass the FAA color vision test just not the military's), but I just couldn't afford to rent helis. Even a tiny Robinson R-22 back then was $110 an hour wet rate.

So now, I put around the sky on my powered paraglider, go to fly-ins when I can and catch the occasional airshow. I'm kinda considering a go at gyroplanes as I can get a part 103 legal one pretty cheap. Then again, with all the recent ticket changes, it wouldn't be hard to get rated in a heavier one and get the maintenance ticket for it as well. Buuuut, I got more important priorities right now.

What you trying to drive that you need a 17gpm pump?
I almost joined the Army to be a WOC. Vision tests made that iffy. I used to rebuilt wrecked helicopters, but never got to turn wrenches on them. I joined the airlines when the bottom fell out of oil (and helicopters) back in the 80s. I had a friend that was a flight instructor , but with young kids, never took lessons to fly copters.
My Bradco/Mahindra 511 backhoe would dance with a 17 gpm pump instead of my 11 gpm pump. It's a beast now with 11 gpm, but I wouldn't have to run at full rpm to get full use from the 511
hugs, Brandi
 

EDL

New member
Well, checked out the 7060 today. Oof, it's a beast. An expensive beast. Too expensive for my budget beast.

Wow, I guess that new engine costs a lot. The 6520 was like $27,000. The 7060 I got quoted today is $31,000. Ah well, back to the 30 series.
 

Bindian

Member
Well, checked out the 7060 today. Oof, it's a beast. An expensive beast. Too expensive for my budget beast.

Wow, I guess that new engine costs a lot. The 6520 was like $27,000. The 7060 I got quoted today is $31,000. Ah well, back to the 30 series.
EDL,:respect:
That is an awesome price for a 6520!:cool: I paid 26,000 for mine back in 2007. I saw a 5530 today and it looks as big as my Big RED Beast.:eek: Decisions, decisions.:pat::yum::yum:
hugs, Brandi
 

EDL

New member
Well, the 6520 was $21,000 just for the tractor (last time Mahindra had pricing on its site) and the loader added another $5800 or so, so $27,000. Can't find anyone with a 6520 left anyway.

$31,000 is just too far over my budget for the 7060. I'd like to keep it at or below $28,000. Besides, the 7060 isn't eligible for the 0% 60 month financing and the loader on it lifts less than the 6520 did, and all for a $4,000 price increase, lol.

I'll probably go for the 6030 or 6530. Those are really more than I need anyway. I just don't want to spend that kind of money and end up with not enough tractor, so a little overkill is ok :wink:
 

Doc

Admin
Staff member
Gold Site Supporter
Sounds like a done deal to me. You know what size you think you need, and you know how much you can spend, so it seems pretty much decided.

I'm only posting to assure you I was right where you are, and unsure of what I should do. I fretted way to much over the decision. Not making light of the decision in the least, it is an important one ...but it sounds like you've zeroed in on what you can get for you money, and found one that appears to fit the bill. All that's left is to put the money down and take a tractor home. :D

That for sure is the fun part. We all know bigger is usually better, but worse comes to worse, if you have one a tad smaller than you'd hoped, it just takes a little bit longer to get the job done. That equates to more seat time. :D :thumb: No matter what work horse you pick, these puppies will amaze you with what they can do. I predict you will be thrilled with your new tractor ...like a kid at Christmas. Like I said, I was there, and I still remember the feeling. It's awesome to relieve yourself of all the pressure of the decision making and truly get down to some real work.

Good luck with whatever you decide on. And please post pics once you do decide and get one home. Or, if it would make you feel better about the decision, you could ask for a home demo (have the dealer bring the tractor to your place for you to try out on your chores) .... some will do that, and others won't. You never know until you ask.
 

Bindian

Member
Well, the 6520 was $21,000 just for the tractor (last time Mahindra had pricing on its site) and the loader added another $5800 or so, so $27,000. Can't find anyone with a 6520 left anyway.

$31,000 is just too far over my budget for the 7060. I'd like to keep it at or below $28,000. Besides, the 7060 isn't eligible for the 0% 60 month financing and the loader on it lifts less than the 6520 did, and all for a $4,000 price increase, lol.

I'll probably go for the 6030 or 6530. Those are really more than I need anyway. I just don't want to spend that kind of money and end up with not enough tractor, so a little overkill is ok :wink:
EDL,
I thought you had found a 6520.:pat: In that case a 30 series wins out. What are the major differences between the 6030 and a 6530? I chalk up the 7060 lifting less to it having less mass up front in that it has a 3 cylinder engine, while my 6520 has a 4 cylinder.:rolleyes: But I shouldn't be quoted on that.:yum::yum::yum: I saw a 5530 yesterday and it looks as big as my 6520.:cool:
hugs, Brandi
 
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