Newbie Diesel Cold Weather Questionms

RKP in SB

Member
Well, guys, at the ripe oid age of 62, I have acquired my first diesel-engined vehicle, my new Kubota RTV-X1100C. It's a great machine and I love it, but I'm beginning to think that many years of owning gas-engined vehicles has left me unprepared for coping with a diesel in cold weather.

I live in northern MIchigan, and although our proximity to Lake Michigan helps moderate the the weather here, it still gets cold. We'll have a lot of 0*F nights and 20 below isn't unusual.

Many of those cold mornings will also see us blessed with a nice heavy dump of lake effect snow, so I need to get out and clear my 1000' long private road. Up to this point, I've done that work with a John Deere Gator (gas EFI, instant starts no matter how cold) and a John Deere X739 garden Tractor (gas EFI, slow to start, terrible snowblower).

I've never had a diesel, though, and I think I had better plan ahead. What do you guys who deal with deep cold do to keep your diesels ready to go? Oil pan heater? Block Heater? Anti-Gel? #1 diesel fuel?

My Kubota is stored in an unheated shed that I built a few years ago. I suppose I could throw a heater in there, but it has board-and-batten siding on post frame construction, so it's neither air-tight nor easily insulated.

If worse came to worse and a blizzard was on the way on some frigid night, I guess I could park the Kubota in my 2 car insulated garage. It's an attached garage, though, and the idea of letting it spew out diesel exhaust into the house for 10 or 15 minutes while it warms up on some cold morning is less than appealing. The best thing would definitely be to leave it in the shed. I know my wife sure wouldn't enjoy the smell of diesel exhaust in the house.

So can I get by with an oil pan heater and careful use of the glow plugs -- or do I need to make other preparations?

Thanks!
 

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avantiguy

Super Site Supporter
SUPER Site Supporter
You can see in the background that mine sets in an unheated pole barn. It's where my 2004 900 sets during the winter. In the 10 years or so I've had it, starting has not been an issue. I usually cycle the glow plugs a couple of time for 10 seconds or so and then start it.

I don't recall anything close to 20 below over here but it always starts.

YOU need - Good high amp battery, winter diesel fuel and I use power services kleen + cetane in each tank of diesel. Remember, summer diesel can gel at lower temperatures so winter diesel is important.

I do have a propane heater that runs off a propane tank. So I could aim it at the block in severely cold weather but if you think you will hit -20, I'd probably add a block heater but so far I haven't needed one. If it sets a couple of weeks without use in the winter, I usually put the battery charger on it overnight to maintain the charge.

As I said before, add some weight to the bed and enjoy plowing the white stuff.

xiSY6zR9AYkp97elp7pHb2KykW-AHvqEVgFZwGr34t4lLWWmdWzkU7Sxh0t6_w4Wje-PN29bGccDBA-fN8BczV3n7PsbnoJpdDw0G_2tnz4itQ79t3vhdhpPB1bxVayyIdM2chPArfKq_obm7YDLYjt5_2ezIRLeG3clG-gsrOkk_B7gWFFJYy-JKhXLKIKKsVBgRyvH6KwjqKmgi1Ku8W-cSdakzeX4BZc7qBWj-k6mV8PotT99eqmU_bi6ZwjBztq64afv91VfPNpn5OVJnpu2nXVgOLqn3CEdlff5XVDG_pO3GTS7cCAGGlXAYTE_N39rxoBs5_ffWcnMkHEADgmPqk2pCRBGMSIpyd6WuvPayfY-99gRW0JCkPRl6WF7kR-UGEGbsNdOAMzI9Hs6XYS2bUTU7zrI1t1B0sK9BTFbGISUM24XiSb1pwOL0FrTPYRbvTRz5PhsL2ug2pAynPZ8EOirC2R8cSocMdjqdQBXVF5u6u4LJ9ktjWC84bzbj_uVb0Ee89SnM4KGrs8RIpFvDtBRH3ffN0A9yeBqzpqtXv4pxMPgwWrdKXHocmyMseehAXnek-w_KjlQEk5oRPF04D_6S6JqCYArv-l4dFGVwM93Kxd0cEW0Xist5iQfEbl2PAloo68xXIC-aoPdFTdD=w1270-h953-no
 

BiffNH

Well-known member
SUPER Site Supporter
I am in the Lakes Region of central New Hampshire and we get well below zero a number of times each winter. I've had my x900 for three winters and I've not yet had a problem starting in the coldest weather. I cycle the glow plug twice and it starts fine. I do treat my 275 gallon fuel tank as I fill it with a treatment (can't recall the name) and I have the dealer fill my tank in late fall when they are delivering their winter blend. I've thought about using a dip stick or block heater, but so far it hasn't been necessary. Have a good winter!
 

aurthuritis

Well-known member
Site Supporter
it is very good idea for a PC diesel engine to use the glow plugs properly. in extreme cold like 20 below have a good battery and glow the engine for a minute then start the engine and as soon as it starts reapply the glow plugs until the engine idles smoothly. then stop and let it warm up the transmission oil. these little Kubota engines are easy starters in the cold. you should have to start an old CAT.
 

aurthuritis

Well-known member
Site Supporter
OH and by the way."WELCOME AND ENJOY" your new machine and the family of this site.
MERRY CHRISTMAS.
 

RKP in SB

Member
it is very good idea for a PC diesel engine to use the glow plugs properly. in extreme cold like 20 below have a good battery and glow the engine for a minute then start the engine and as soon as it starts reapply the glow plugs until the engine idles smoothly. then stop and let it warm up the transmission oil. these little Kubota engines are easy starters in the cold. you should have to start an old CAT.
Thanks! I didn't realize you could re-apply the glow plugs after it starts, but that makes sense -- it should warm up the cylinders faster.
 

RKP in SB

Member
You can see in the background that mine sets in an unheated pole barn. It's where my 2004 900 sets during the winter. In the 10 years or so I've had it, starting has not been an issue. I usually cycle the glow plugs a couple of time for 10 seconds or so and then start it.

I don't recall anything close to 20 below over here but it always starts.

YOU need - Good high amp battery, winter diesel fuel and I use power services kleen + cetane in each tank of diesel. Remember, summer diesel can gel at lower temperatures so winter diesel is important.

I do have a propane heater that runs off a propane tank. So I could aim it at the block in severely cold weather but if you think you will hit -20, I'd probably add a block heater but so far I haven't needed one. If it sets a couple of weeks without use in the winter, I usually put the battery charger on it overnight to maintain the charge.

As I said before, add some weight to the bed and enjoy plowing the white stuff.

xiSY6zR9AYkp97elp7pHb2KykW-AHvqEVgFZwGr34t4lLWWmdWzkU7Sxh0t6_w4Wje-PN29bGccDBA-fN8BczV3n7PsbnoJpdDw0G_2tnz4itQ79t3vhdhpPB1bxVayyIdM2chPArfKq_obm7YDLYjt5_2ezIRLeG3clG-gsrOkk_B7gWFFJYy-JKhXLKIKKsVBgRyvH6KwjqKmgi1Ku8W-cSdakzeX4BZc7qBWj-k6mV8PotT99eqmU_bi6ZwjBztq64afv91VfPNpn5OVJnpu2nXVgOLqn3CEdlff5XVDG_pO3GTS7cCAGGlXAYTE_N39rxoBs5_ffWcnMkHEADgmPqk2pCRBGMSIpyd6WuvPayfY-99gRW0JCkPRl6WF7kR-UGEGbsNdOAMzI9Hs6XYS2bUTU7zrI1t1B0sK9BTFbGISUM24XiSb1pwOL0FrTPYRbvTRz5PhsL2ug2pAynPZ8EOirC2R8cSocMdjqdQBXVF5u6u4LJ9ktjWC84bzbj_uVb0Ee89SnM4KGrs8RIpFvDtBRH3ffN0A9yeBqzpqtXv4pxMPgwWrdKXHocmyMseehAXnek-w_KjlQEk5oRPF04D_6S6JqCYArv-l4dFGVwM93Kxd0cEW0Xist5iQfEbl2PAloo68xXIC-aoPdFTdD=w1270-h953-no
Thanks, Avantiguy.

Is this the stuff you use?

https://smile.amazon.com/Power-Serv...qid=1545490318&sr=8-3&keywords=Kleen+++cetane
 

foxalaska

Active member
My Kubota is my only transportation in the village and needs to start at all temps. The machine sits outside, I have no shed. I recommend Mobil 1 synthetic oil. We've cold tested many oils at -40 or colder and have found issues with other oils being too stiff when cold. Kubota has a "cheezy" front crank seal and will fail when the oil is too stiff during startup. Been through two of them until I shit canned the Kubota oil and went to Mobil 1. No problems so far this year. I've started at 20 below without heat a couple times this winter, although I have a block and pan heater which allows me to easily start at -40 or colder(started yesterday at -38). I use #1 heating fuel, but I think you would be fine with 2-15 i.e. 50/50 winter blend. Heating the oil and using a good winter oil is what's important. From my experience, the worse scenario is an engine to start with stiff oil. I high idle my machine all the time and run it very easy until the hydrostat gets warmed up.
 

foxalaska

Active member
Another thing I failed to mention. If you are using Ultra Low Sulfur fuel, add a good lubrication additive. Not all winter fuel additives give enough lubrication for ULSD. The removed sulfur served as a vital lubrication for the injection system. Suppliers are willy-nilly about adding lubrication enhancers to their fuels. We experienced this with our underground mining equipment running the old style air cooled Deutz engines. A little motor oil works fine in a pinch.
 

avantiguy

Super Site Supporter
SUPER Site Supporter
Another thing I failed to mention. If you are using Ultra Low Sulfur fuel, add a good lubrication additive. Not all winter fuel additives give enough lubrication for ULSD. The removed sulfur served as a vital lubrication for the injection system. Suppliers are willy-nilly about adding lubrication enhancers to their fuels. We experienced this with our underground mining equipment running the old style air cooled Deutz engines. A little motor oil works fine in a pinch.

The low sulfur issues above are why I started using the PS Kleen + cetane based on previous forum discussions.
 
For cold weather, diesel #1 is recommended, and that is just kerosene. Diesel #1 usually requires a lubricity improver to meet its specs (added by the fuel supplier), while kerosene does not. I use kerosene with Opti Lube XPD at twice the minimum concentration recommended. This additive reduces cold-temperature gelling, improves lubricity (offsets the lack of aromatics in #1 versus #2 diesel fuel), increases the cetane number helping starting, and includes detergent additives. Tests by an independent lab (where I used to work) showed it to be the best diesel fuel additive.

I still have some problems starting my X1100c, and the OEM block heater that I have trips the GFCI switch, so it is useless. I will fix that at some point, and expect starting performance to improve.
 

RKP in SB

Member
Foxalaska, I ordered this, an 8 pack of 4 ounce bottles, for $25.87 (plus $12.25 shipping):

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MV8HK1Q/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

At 16 gallons per 4 ounce bottle, I figure I'm going to use 1/2 bottle per 7.9 gallon tank on my Kubota, so that's less than an extra $2.50 per full tank.
And based on how the Kubota is sipping fuel so far, I doubt I'll use 128 gallons of fuel this winter, not even close, so this will get me through the winter, I think.
 

foxalaska

Active member
Foxalaska, I ordered this, an 8 pack of 4 ounce bottles, for $25.87 (plus $12.25 shipping):

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MV8HK1Q/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

At 16 gallons per 4 ounce bottle, I figure I'm going to use 1/2 bottle per 7.9 gallon tank on my Kubota, so that's less than an extra $2.50 per full tank.
And based on how the Kubota is sipping fuel so far, I doubt I'll use 128 gallons of fuel this winter, not even close, so this will get me through the winter, I think.

I usually fill when I get to the last two bars. Takes about 6 gallons. As you correctly posted, these things are easy on fuel. I burn #1 because that is the only fuel available here, but I plan on shipping in some #2 for summer use and start blending as it get's colder. At six bucks a gallon, an extra $2.50 a fill up is peanuts. Thanks for the info!!!


John
 

bczoom

Senior Member
Staff member
Gold Site Supporter
Most has been discussed but a couple things not yet mentioned.

If you go the block heater route as I did, consider getting one for the tranny as well. If your hyd fluid is also warm, you can start moving earlier. Mine are both 110v A/C and wired to a single plug that's easily accessible to plug into the wall with an extension cord. I also put them on a timer to have them come on an hour or 2 before I expect to need the RTV (normally, right after work).

I see you pull the RTV into the shed. If you're expecting a lot of snow, consider backing it in so you can use your blade to push any snow accumulated against or near the shed door.

You mentioned pulling it into your attached garage. Have you done that yet? I ask because I see you have a light on top of the cab. The RTV by itself fits under most standard garage doors. If you don't have taller doors, you may rip that light off the top. Don't ask how I know...

If you do put heaters on the engine and tranny, you won't need it to sit in the garage for 10-15 minutes. I pull mine out (at a crawl) almost immediately and let it do its further warming up outside.
 
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