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Old 11-03-2017, 12:24 PM
Billjr Billjr is offline
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Default CK20S kioti putting mahindra 3710 backhoe on kioti pto for pump???

I got a really good deal on a backhoe off 3316 mahindra tractor the backhoe is a 3710.. it is set up for a 33 hp 4.7gpm pump ,dont konow pto HP,I was wondering if i put a hydrualic pump on pto of kioti which has 16 to 17 hp on the pto will it be enough to run the hoe without tearing anything up like the pto. I dont have any problem fabbing and fitting the hoe to the kioti but i wanna use an external pump if i can just in case i tear something up i can still use the tractor and front loader plus the kioti does'nt have wet lines and uncertain about where to put a T inline for in and out safely, dealer said they dont have wet lines for mine and stopped makeing them a few years ago plus it would cost more to put them on than it would be to put a pump on pto so what do you guys think can i put a pump on pto safely or is it a bad idea?
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Old 11-03-2017, 12:45 PM
Lee1935 Lee1935 is offline
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I have a pump on my 22hp LB2204 which powers a wood spliter. On big blocks if you aren't careful you can kill the engine. I suspect as long as you are careful your 17hp will easily handle the backhoe. My machine has a 3 speed pto and I have to use the the lowest speed
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Old 11-03-2017, 01:41 PM
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My ck20s i think has a 540 rpm pto speed you think that is low enough to power a backoe
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Old 11-03-2017, 04:03 PM
Lee1935 Lee1935 is offline
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I would think so, the only time you will put a heavy load on the engine would maybe digging in hard ground or pulling stumps
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Old 11-03-2017, 08:07 PM
Lee1935 Lee1935 is offline
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I would think so, the only time you will put a heavy load on the engine would maybe digging in hard ground or pulling stumps
my low gear is 540 rpm, 2nd gear is 700 rpm which I've found best for the brush chipper
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Old 11-05-2017, 07:49 PM
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Thanks for the info I'll try to find me a pump that will work for the application do i need 4.7 GPM or can i get one that is 5 or 6 GPM without heating up the fluid too bad?
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:38 AM
Lee1935 Lee1935 is offline
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My pump came with the wood splitter which has it's own 5 gal tank. I'm not sure what it's GPM is. Does the backhoe have its own oil tank or was it made to run off the tractor hyds ? if not you are going to need a tank, you might be smart to contact the backhoe maker with technical questions ☺ can you see a pressure relief valve on the hoe? it could have been designed to use a relief valve on the tractor if so you will have to add one
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Old 11-06-2017, 11:00 PM
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I have a tank that i'm gonna put on it its about 5 or 6 gal. tank as far as pressure relief i think there's a pressure adjustment or pop off on the controllers on the hoe.
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Old 11-06-2017, 11:08 PM
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I still can't find any body that can tell me what gpm i gotta have so oil won't heat up but don't get under power the tractor it came off of 3316 mahindra said they have 4.7 gal pump but if i cant find one similar to put on pto at the gpm i need for the speed of 540 rpm then i'm afraid that my oil will heat up if i put a 7 or higher GPM pump on there i'm so confused about this and seems like no one can give me the answers i need to make all this work right. So if you guys can help or know someone i can call to find this out that would be great. and bye the way Thanks for all your help and i hate to ask for more but you guys know way more than me when it comes to tractors. thanks a bunch
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  #10  
Old 11-07-2017, 08:23 AM
Lee1935 Lee1935 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billjr View Post
I have a tank that i'm gonna put on it its about 5 or 6 gal. tank as far as pressure relief i think there's a pressure adjustment or pop off on the controllers on the hoe.
The webpage for Mahindra shows their new hoes have relief valves, I would assume their older models also have a relief valve. However I try hard not to assume anything, a email or phone call to their service department should clear that up.
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Old 11-07-2017, 08:45 AM
Lee1935 Lee1935 is offline
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I still can't find any body that can tell me what gpm i gotta have so oil won't heat up but don't get under power the tractor it came off of 3316 mahindra said they have 4.7 gal pump but if i cant find one similar to put on pto at the gpm i need for the speed of 540 rpm then i'm afraid that my oil will heat up if i put a 7 or higher GPM pump on there i'm so confused about this and seems like no one can give me the answers i need to make all this work right. So if you guys can help or know someone i can call to find this out that would be great. and bye the way Thanks for all your help and i hate to ask for more but you guys know way more than me when it comes to tractors. thanks a bunch
That small of a difference in pump speed shouldn't make a dif, but to be on the safe side when you contact Mahindra they will have someone experienced in Hyds that can answer your question.

When you are using the hoe that is what will heat your oil up, not the pump. It seems the new hoes operate with up to 2060 to 2300 lbs psi.

If you ask around I'm sure you can find someone close to you that understands Hyds, It's not rocket science but what ever you do has to be done right the 1st time

p.s. what little I know about Hyds came from a one year trade school course 40 years ago and what I've picked up over the years since operating my own equipment. Best of luck☺
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Old 11-07-2017, 10:23 PM
Billjr Billjr is offline
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Thanks Lee1935 I gotta Question about hydraulic pumps for example if i have a pump that runs 1000rpm and puts out 9GPM, if i drop it down to 540RPM will it be around 4.5 GPM or am i looking at this wrong or how should it be , the mahindra puts out 4.7GPM so need a pump close to that but there pump is internal and dont run through the pto mine will, does it still need to be 4.7GPM at 450RPM or how do i figure this out???
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Old 11-07-2017, 10:51 PM
Lee1935 Lee1935 is offline
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Thanks Lee1935 I gotta Question about hydraulic pumps for example if i have a pump that runs 1000rpm and puts out 9GPM, if i drop it down to 540RPM will it be around 4.5 GPM or am i looking at this wrong or how should it be , the mahindra puts out 4.7GPM so need a pump close to that but there pump is internal and dont run through the pto mine will, does it still need to be 4.7GPM at 450RPM or how do i figure this out???
You are asking questions that I would have known 40 years ago☺ but the answer is both yes and no. It depends on the pump type and my dim memory says that a vane pump you can adjust the out put by the speed. The gear pump is designed to work best one general speed

You do intend to buy a new pump? You will find the required RPM and all other specs at the dealers website

Either pump you have mentioned will work, neither pump will overheat your oil. Tank size should be at least the pumps output
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Old 11-07-2017, 10:59 PM
Lee1935 Lee1935 is offline
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Can you ask around and find a tractor to look at that has a PTO driven pump? Anyone that sells tractor mounted log spliters should be a good place to start. I bought mine from Northern Tool about 10 years ago

This would be a huge help in deciding how to tie your pump to the tractor "I use a short chunk of chain and two heavy duty bungee cords" Plus give you a good idea of how to run the hyd hoses
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Old 11-07-2017, 11:35 PM
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I was talking to Johnsons equipment sales they are the closest around me and they don't know what pump that would work for my application I guess they dont wanna take this on because if something were to happen they think i would come back on them some way which is not true on my part but never the less they said they wouldn't have a clue, as far as someone around my area, there's not many people that do this kind of think, I guess I'm the only dummy that cares enough to ask these question the rest of them have enough money to just buy a tractor with everything already on it they want, I'm gonna cal around tom. and see what i can come up with I'll let you know what i find out and may be we can come up with something to go on Thanks for your help I appreciate all the help i can get on this.
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Old 11-08-2017, 07:23 AM
Lee1935 Lee1935 is offline
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Doing a online search "PTO Hyd pump made USA" is a good place to start, you will have a big assortment of pumps to look at.

The shaft size is not that important as all farm implement stores will carry adapters in various lengths sizes.

These same stores might be a good contact to finding a local farmer or logger that would be glad to take a look at your project. Many of these people do their own work and at least in my part of the country most will glad to help a greenhorn with a project like this.

I'd be happy to send photo's of my pto setup, but it's at a remote location in Canada and already the area is snowed in until spring.
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Old 11-08-2017, 06:02 PM
Lee1935 Lee1935 is offline
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Bill, I had occasion to visit one of the oldest Kioti dealers in Washington State, I took your information with me and had a long chat with the boss and his chief trouble shooter, as I kinda suspected they both said your 18hp tractor would be grossly overloaded with the backhoe you have, which is made for 33-40 HP tractors.

They both agreed with me that if you lived in flat country and were careful when moving the tractor that it would work. You would have to have ballast in the bucket and keep the bucket low to the ground to keep the front wheels down.

The only way you could safely load it on a trailer would be to winch it on
when those front wheels go up it will stop when the backhoe hits the ground
however if you are on the slightest slop when the front end goes up more than likely it will end up on its side. If you have your seat belt snug and hang on tight you will have a story to tell your grandkids, if not you might not be able to tell them the story.

The dealers advice and I agree 100 percent is "stop what you thinking about doing" ☺☺

I know this is advice you didn't want to hear, but as the song goes "you got to know when to fold them"
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Old 11-08-2017, 10:06 PM
Billjr Billjr is offline
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I have a ck20s which has 22hp on motor and 16 or 17HP to the PTO I talked to a tractor dealer and he said that it would be ok to put it on just have to take easy as far as the pump goes the dealer told me it has a 7.4 GPM on the tractor so i found a PTO pump that has 7GPM output the only thing about that is they want 400.00 for it which means i gotta save my money and try to afford it just wish there was a cheaper way but hey can't have everything
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Old 11-09-2017, 10:41 AM
Lee1935 Lee1935 is offline
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When you get it finished post some pictures!
Good luck and keep all four wheels on the ground ☺☺☺☺☺
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Old 11-10-2017, 01:29 PM
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Thanks I'll try to get pics as soon as i can but i hate to work in the cold might have to find a place to fab it all up, may be a neighbors garage if he'll let me
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