Problem with FEL not holding position.

N

Nicahawk

Guest
I'm having a problem with my John Deere 1020 FEL. When the bucket is raised any at all, and the tractor is idleing, the hydraulic system seems to bleed down slowly and the bucket starts to loose position. Like slowly creeping down. This also happens to the tilt. Does anyone know if it's more likely to be bleeding at the cylinders or the controls, or maybe both. The is a late 50's model and nothing has ever been worked on as far as the FEL hydraulics.
icon9.gif
Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.
Nic
 
I'm having a problem with my John Deere 1020 FEL. When the bucket is raised any at all, and the tractor is idleing, the hydraulic system seems to bleed down slowly and the bucket starts to loose position. Like slowly creeping down. This also happens to the tilt. Does anyone know if it's more likely to be bleeding at the cylinders or the controls, or maybe both. The is a late 50's model and nothing has ever been worked on as far as the FEL hydraulics.
icon9.gif
Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.
Nic

Is your fluid at the proper levels?

Can you remember cleaning/changing the filter?

Does the three point drop down as well?

If not, and your loader is drifting down under its own weight, you need to have both of the lift cylinders rebuilt or the spool valves may need to be tested for leaks...

If the three point drops as well...you are probably looking at the pump...

Can you remember if you have changed the filter and fluid? say in this decade...:mrgreen:
 
N

Nicahawk

Guest
Does the three point drop down as well?

If not, and your loader is drifting down under its own weight, you need to have both of the lift cylinders rebuilt.

If the three point drops as well...you are probably looking at the pump...

Another question... Can you remember if you have changed the filter and fluid? say in this decade...:mrgreen:
The three point holds ok, it's just the FEL that drifts down. Thanks for your help, I'll order some rebuild kits for the cylinders. Oh, btw, I'm old, but, I think, I remember getting the wife to change the filter and fluid for me a short while back! :whistle:
Nic
 
The three point holds ok, it's just the FEL that drifts down. Thanks for your help, I'll order some rebuild kits for the cylinders. Oh, btw, I'm old, but, I think, I remember getting the wife to change the filter and fluid for me a short while back! :whistle:
Nic

Make sure you check the spool valves for leaks as well...
 

Dougster

Old Member
The three point holds ok, it's just the FEL that drifts down. Thanks for your help, I'll order some rebuild kits for the cylinders. Oh, btw, I'm old, but, I think, I remember getting the wife to change the filter and fluid for me a short while back! :whistle:
Nic
Assuming that you have had this tractor for a long period of time and never noticed this amount of drop before, I think we can rule out normal (i.e., within manufacturer spec) relaxing over time. Before you go out and buy anything, if your loader has cylinder line quick disconnects at the loader control valve, you may wish to disconnect those fittings with the boom braced (using a 2x4 or similar) in the up position and then remove the brace and observe the rate of descent. Assuming no quick disconnect leakage, this will help tell you if your cylinder seals need replacing or if the problem is elsewhere... perhaps in the loader control valve.

Dougster
 
N

Nicahawk

Guest
Assuming that you have had this tractor for a long period of time and never noticed this amount of drop before, I think we can rule out normal (i.e., within manufacturer spec) relaxing over time. Before you go out and buy anything, if your loader has cylinder line quick disconnects at the loader control valve, you may wish to disconnect those fittings with the boom braced (using a 2x4 or similar) in the up position and then remove the brace and observe the rate of descent. Assuming no quick disconnect leakage, this will help tell you if your cylinder seals need replacing or if the problem is elsewhere... perhaps in the loader control valve.

Dougster
Thanks for the help. The bucket test will be pretty easy to do and is a good idea. I'll try to ck it later today.
Nic
 

Dougster

Old Member
Thanks for the help. The bucket test will be pretty easy to do and is a good idea. I'll try to ck it later today.
Nic
The idea of bracing it up with a 2x4 and releasing pressure via the loader valve first is so you don't have to disconnect those lines under pressure... which could be tough and/or spray you with oil. Even so, be very careful as some oil could still manage to escape when you pop off those quick disconnects. Be sure to have a rag in hand and a bucket ready just in case! :)

And obviously... do this with the tractor not running. ;)

Dougster
 

shinnlinger

Member
NIc,

After you determine where your fault is with e DOugster method, I would compare repacing defective components from here
http://www.surpluscenter.com/
They are in Nebraska so shipping to you shouldn't be too bad. Hell add an extra spool while you are at it and grapple it up!
 
N

Nicahawk

Guest
The idea of bracing it up with a 2x4 and releasing pressure via the loader valve first is so you don't have to disconnect those lines under pressure... which could be tough and/or spray you with oil. Even so, be very careful as some oil could still manage to escape when you pop off those quick disconnects. Be sure to have a rag in hand and a bucket ready just in case! :)

And obviously... do this with the tractor not running. ;)

Dougster
I did the test today as you suggested and the bucket didn't creep down nearly as fast as it does with the hoses attached and the tractor running. Looks like the place to start is rebuilding the control valves. I think before I order rebuild pts I will try adjusting the flow or speed ? control screws on the bottom of the valves. (I stumbled on to them yesterday). Worth a try before plunging ahead.
Shinnlinger, thanks for the tip for ordering the rebuild pts, I'll check them out for pricing before ordering from the local JD dealer, who worships every thing green and has prices to reflect it.
Nic
 

Dougster

Old Member
I did the test today as you suggested and the bucket didn't creep down nearly as fast as it does with the hoses attached and the tractor running. Looks like the place to start is rebuilding the control valves. I think before I order rebuild pts I will try adjusting the flow or speed ? control screws on the bottom of the valves. (I stumbled on to them yesterday). Worth a try before plunging ahead.
Nic
Yep... sounds like a loader control valve issue rather than a cylinder seal issue. I doubt that choking down on the loader flow rate is going to affect the problem in any way. Sounds to me like a loader valve rebuild is in order. :)

Dougster
 
N

Nicahawk

Guest
Yep... sounds like a loader control valve issue rather than a cylinder seal issue. I doubt that choking down on the loader flow rate is going to affect the problem in any way. Sounds to me like a loader valve rebuild is in order. :)

Dougster
Thanks a lot for all the help!
Nic
 

mongoose

New member
If it were me & I didn't have a joystick, before I rebuilt the old valves I would upgrade to a joystick. Once you use one, you will never use 2 handles again. Of course if you already have one, rebuild it & go on.
 
N

Nicahawk

Guest
If it were me & I didn't have a joystick, before I rebuilt the old valves I would upgrade to a joystick. Once you use one, you will never use 2 handles again. Of course if you already have one, rebuild it & go on.
Good idea.
icon14.gif
I wonder about how much the cost difference would be? I'll start checking tomorrow. I've got a joy stick on the orange machine so would be nice if they both operated about the same.
icon6.gif
Do like being able to get on and off both sides of the ole JD with ease, hate to give it up, but learned to deal with it with the Kubota.
 

mongoose

New member
There are many different joysticks as well as mounting options. If you had a remote joystick with a cable you could mount it in a location that would allow you to still enter/exit. They do cost more than a valve w/direct joystick though.
 

rback33

Member
Good idea.
icon14.gif
I wonder about how much the cost difference would be? I'll start checking tomorrow. I've got a joy stick on the orange machine so would be nice if they both operated about the same.
icon6.gif
Do like being able to get on and off both sides of the ole JD with ease, hate to give it up, but learned to deal with it with the Kubota.

Hmmm... I would be curious to see what you have setup there. I have not been out your way in ages and am desperately looking for excuses now... How do I justify the gas and miles for a little day trip....:brows: I even know where there is an un-inventoried valve... just not sure if all of the joystick is there..can't remember the pressure relief setting either, but THAT I could figure out easy...:cool:
 
N

Nicahawk

Guest
Hmmm... I would be curious to see what you have setup there. I have not been out your way in ages and am desperately looking for excuses now... How do I justify the gas and miles for a little day trip....:brows: I even know where there is an un-inventoried valve... just not sure if all of the joystick is there..can't remember the pressure relief setting either, but THAT I could figure out easy...:cool:
Interesting! :thumb: I wan-ta hear more about this preliminary plan.
icon14.gif
I have a gas tank on site to ease the pain, :starbucks: on all the time, and of course at least one 30 pack around most of the time, and maybe some free range eggs. :wink:
 

rback33

Member
Interesting! :thumb: I wan-ta hear more about this preliminary plan.
icon14.gif
I have a gas tank on site to ease the pain, :starbucks: on all the time, and of course at least one 30 pack around most of the time, and maybe some free range eggs. :wink:

Hmm... will have to talk to SHMBO... She is very stressed at the moment and I will have to see how the day plays out.. we may need the drive anywho.... Can you get any pics of the valve setup now to guide me any?
 
N

Nicahawk

Guest
Hmm... will have to talk to SHMBO... She is very stressed at the moment and I will have to see how the day plays out.. we may need the drive anywho.... Can you get any pics of the valve setup now to guide me any?
It looks like the blowing snow :letitsnow: is starting to wind down so will trek over in a few min with camera in hand.
 
N

Nicahawk

Guest
Pictures

Hmm... will have to talk to SHMBO... She is very stressed at the moment and I will have to see how the day plays out.. we may need the drive anywho.... Can you get any pics of the valve setup now to guide me any?
Managed to get to the machine shed and got these.
 

Attachments

  • Hydraulics 1.jpg
    Hydraulics 1.jpg
    132.7 KB · Views: 323
  • Hydraulics 2.jpg
    Hydraulics 2.jpg
    150.7 KB · Views: 362
  • Hydraulics 3.jpg
    Hydraulics 3.jpg
    166.6 KB · Views: 344
  • Hydraulics 4.jpg
    Hydraulics 4.jpg
    179.6 KB · Views: 270

rback33

Member
EEEGAAADDDDS. Whay have I gotten myself into....Dang.... How does the valve get oil? Am I right in thinking that the four lines off the back there go to remotes on the back of the tractor? Is this how the loader is plumbed/how it get fluid? If so, is the three point getting fluid from somewhere else? For the record, SHMBO HAS given me green light for a possible "lucrative" Saturday afternoon drive south... She wanted me to define "lucrative".. I said it might not actually cost anything... she did not think this was lucrative but it was the only spin I had plus u said something about a 30 pack...:alc:at any rate.. I am trying to decide how much help I can be... I hate to waste yer time coming down there is there is nothin I can do.... even though I LOVE that part of the state and have not been there in probably seven years....

I am guessing that u are fairly mechanical....I have not met too many engineers that weren't... do you have the ability to do much metal fabrication?
 
Top