Managing a Burn Pile

larryRB

Member
Being a past deputy fire chief in a small Massachusetts town I can tell you that Mass plain doesn't want any burning at all, Not all towns are allowed to burn, and the few that are, the restrictions are so hard it almost isn't worth getting involved in. The local fire dpts take a lot of heat over this and unfortunately, they have nothing to do with it,. The state dictates January and February, sometimes extending the season, and the state tells the local fire dpt if they can or cannot issue a permit on any given day. Each fire dpt is required to check in and get permission for the day. We have a lady that operates the Charlton fire tower, who is real sharp. Some years ago, she toned me out claiming a person was burning tires,.. SHe was within 50 ft of the fire, and yes, under the brush the guy was hiding tires,... THese tower people know the color of each smoke and can get as I said, within 50 ft. Charlton tower by air miles was 7 miles away,,, 13 or so by car,., We lost burning priviledges for the remainder of the week because I wrote the guy up. If I didn't write him up, the town would have permanently loss burning rights... There is no such thing as a farmer being exempt, or other exemption that applies.
 

mobilus

Member
Jim,

Mobilius and Paul,

If there is snow on the ground, I just call the cheif and let him know I'm gonna burn...no sales tax either.

Shinn, yeah, but I bet you have a state income tax, right? They'll get their share one way or the other.

Doug, what Jim wote is what I do as well...FEL and sprayer. You'd be surprised at how much you can accomplish with a small amount of water through a sprayer.

Still haven't convinced you to move South, huh?

Mark
 

Dougster

Old Member
Shinn, yeah, but I bet you have a state income tax, right? They'll get their share one way or the other. Doug, what Jim wote is what I do as well...FEL and sprayer. You'd be surprised at how much you can accomplish with a small amount of water through a sprayer. Still haven't convinced you to move South, huh?
Mark
Shinn lives up in the glorious land of "Live Free or Die"... so no sales tax OR income tax! :thumb: Of course, the property taxes are crazy through the roof (as I recently found out the hard way). :rolleyes:

Our whole concept of moving North was based on Al Gore's global warming thang... wherein New Hampshire's climate would be like Southern New England's climate in a mere handful of years... but now this new talk of global cooling may end up making us look to the south again:

http://www.dailytech.com/Solar+Acti...hers+Predict+Another+Ice+Age/article10630.htm

So FEL and sprayer is how you Texas folks do it! :cool: You folks seem to be the pros! :thumb:

Dougster :starbucks:
 

Dougster

Old Member
Being a past deputy fire chief in a small Massachusetts town I can tell you that Mass plain doesn't want any burning at all, Not all towns are allowed to burn, and the few that are, the restrictions are so hard it almost isn't worth getting involved in. The local fire dpts take a lot of heat over this and unfortunately, they have nothing to do with it,. The state dictates January and February, sometimes extending the season, and the state tells the local fire dpt if they can or cannot issue a permit on any given day. Each fire dpt is required to check in and get permission for the day. We have a lady that operates the Charlton fire tower, who is real sharp. Some years ago, she toned me out claiming a person was burning tires,.. She was within 50 ft of the fire, and yes, under the brush the guy was hiding tires,... These tower people know the color of each smoke and can get as I said, within 50 ft. Charlton tower by air miles was 7 miles away,,, 13 or so by car,., We lost burning privileges for the remainder of the week because I wrote the guy up. If I didn't write him up, the town would have permanently loss burning rights... There is no such thing as a farmer being exempt, or other exemption that applies.
As Larry points out... this is not a simple thing here in the People's Republic. And I am neither an advocate nor an opponent. I am just trying to provide a service and give my prospective clients what they have asked for. It will be interesting to see how these assignments eventually pan out.

Dougster :starbucks:
 

shinnlinger

Member
I slept on this little problem, and It sounds like hauling it away in your dump trailer is the most profesional option.

For you wanabe rednecks like myself I will share two homegrown howtoos to deal with stumps still in the ground.

Cut the tree/stump as close as possible to the ground and then put your wood stove (hardwood) ash on it. It has a very low Ph (basic) and will rot the stump away in two years time.

BUt if two years is too long(and I am sure it is) , you could make your own "stump grinder" out of a 3 pt carry all. Put a steel deck on it and mount a brush hog gear box to the plate much as it would be on a brush hog. THen, instead of a mower blade weld two circular steel plates (or more) together to build a beefed up rotating circle. Modify this steel circle to accept commercial stump grinder teeth (avaialble from Baileys etc)
an voila, your own redneck grinder.

NOw it aint as good as a commercial unit, but you could have a machine shop make you one for less than $1000 and if you scrounged around and did it yourself, much less.

To use it get it spinning in low range and slowly drive it back an forth over the stump lowering you 3pt a little with each pass.

Now that Im thinking Dougster, if you can rent a commercial stump grinder, you could use that to break up your "out of the ground" stumps also.
 

Dougster

Old Member
I slept on this little problem, and It sounds like hauling it away in your dump trailer is the most profesional option. {snip crazy redneck stuff!} Now that Im thinking Dougster, if you can rent a commercial stump grinder, you could use that to break up your "out of the ground" stumps also.
No question that in this crazy environmental wacko world hauling everything down to my tub grinder guy in Little Rhody is the professional and politically correct way to go. The problem is that clients often have their own ideas about what they want and it does little good to them or me to point out the error of their ways. :rolleyes:

Dougster :starbucks:
 

shinnlinger

Member
Hmmm,

how about a 454 chevy powered tub grinder then? A big tank with a shaft with hammers spinning....

maybe not...someones liable to get hurt with that one.

Around here if they burn tires, they burn at night....a DARK night

I think Irwin rasied a good point though. If the land owner wants to burn a legal pile himself he might get less hassle than someone who was paid to do it.

I experinced this with building inspectors out in Oregon. I heard rumurs about certian ones being totally unreasonable to my contractor buddies, but when they came to my little shop project they were totaly flexible occasionally made some non binding suggestions if needed and left.

Alot of people complain about property taxes around here, but compared to mass property taxes, I dont know if they are all that unreasonable. And then when you consider no sales or state income tax, I think I am coming out ahead, but you should go to a town meeting sometime if you want to here complaints!

Just get a single wide on a 1/2 acre and you are all set.
 

larryRB

Member
Doug

I would go to your local fire dpt and get a copy of burn laws. Nothing over 6 ft in length, or two inches in diameter, to start fire at 9 am, must be out by 3 pm, charged water line at all times, etc, etc,, my point being let the customer read the strict laws, no logs, no stumps, etc, and this should quickly narrow down their options.,
 

shinnlinger

Member
Wow,

Stuff less then 6 ft long an 2 inches wide can probaly be chipped easeir than burnt, especially when considering the ash clean up.

Looks like hauling the big stuff is the way to go.
 

larryRB

Member
speaking of which I have a brand new International Harvester chipper, never used, still in my cellar. I forget the model #, I think it takes up to 5" or so.. Probably should sell it.
 

Dougster

Old Member
Doug I would go to your local fire dpt and get a copy of burn laws. Nothing over 6 ft in length, or two inches in diameter, to start fire at 9 am, must be out by 3 pm, charged water line at all times, etc, etc,, my point being let the customer read the strict laws, no logs, no stumps, etc, and this should quickly narrow down their options.,
I always go to the local authorities before any new job to ascertain the local laws and their interpretation/enforcement by local police and fire authorities. The old Dougster simply cannot afford to be assessed fines and maybe even worse. :(
Wow, Stuff less then 6 ft long an 2 inches wide can probaly be chipped easeir than burnt, especially when considering the ash clean up. Looks like hauling the big stuff is the way to go.
Probably so. :cool:
speaking of which I have a brand new International Harvester chipper, never used, still in my cellar. I forget the model #, I think it takes up to 5" or so.. Probably should sell it.
Is it a PTO driven model? I'm sure you know that I bought a Chinese one and never did anything with it. It's an unsafe, defective, shipping-damaged piece of junk. Fortunately, my tree guy has a real tree chipper. :eek:

Dougster :starbucks:
 

Bindian

Member
Dougster,
If you can't burn for a few days, then don't burn stumps.:pat: Cut the logs in lengths of 2 foot or less. I build my piles with the Big RED Beast's loader. Then I either put diesel or sumped jet fuel on it, unless it is real dry then I just start two or three fires with paper in the leaves or dried vines. Once the fire is going, I try to keep my loader out of it.:rolleyes: When she burns down enough for coals to start, I use the BH and thumb:cool: to place large logs or small stumps over said coals. I usually go out two times at night:eek: to condense the burning pile into a smaller one. I usually build a large pile around numerous large stumps so the burning stuff can be pushed into and towards the stumps. After a day or two, I pull back the accumulated dirt (your grapple:cool: would have this problem), pick up the small stuff by hand and stack that around the stump that is (hoepfully) burning by now. I have heard that small house fans can be place around the fire to help with enticing the not too dry stuff to burn.:wink: My friend has a 15 foot long copper pipe hooked up to a 5 gallon propane bottle she uses to start large piles a burning. Just light the end and shove it up into the dry center. It worked good on our New Year's Eve fire party. Burning large piles fast and efficently really is an art form, but it is easy to learn. Just takes a few to get the experience or...........:shitHitsFan:.
hugs, Brandi
 

Bindian

Member
Dougster,
Sounds like a small towable stump grinder might be of interest to you. My Mahindra dealer is selling a used chiper. It is an industrial usit that takes up to 8 inch logs.
hugs, Brandi
 

Erik

Member
Dougster,
stumps burn slow - unless you have somethig available to keep pouring more heat into them.
since I suspect railroad ties are out of the question (creosote burns hot enough to obliterate even green stumps) cutting the trees into more manageable pieces is your best bet. (volume vs surface area ratios come into play here)
oak pallets as a base for the fire, then drier wood, brush, etc... then stumps. if you've cut the stumps into maneagable pieces, they will burn better and you won't need heavy equipment.
the last time I did a - for me - large burn pile, I started with a dead x-mas tree and a couple of junipers that had been cut down a month earlier as my base, then brush, a tripod of railroad ties, then the big chunks. it took about 12 hours to burn 2 entire 40' tall elms (cut down as we were building the pile), a small building;s worth of unusable lumber, and half dozen "dead" RR ties. all was done with nothing more than hand tools (shovel, rake, mattock) and brute stupidity/muscle (you know the saying - "he's not ON the brute squad, he IS the brute squad!) and the ground was dead for about 18 months.

8 hour permits on consecutive days, with a couple days prep work and you might be able to get it done enough to haul the leftovers off.

good luck.
 

Dougster

Old Member
You folks are fast convincing me of the wisdom of pressing these clients yet again for a haul-away and pay-for-disposal solution. :( The only question remains: Let these clients discover the limitations, legal/physical pitfalls and potential costs for themselves? Or try to do it all on my own. :rolleyes:

Neither is going to be willing to pay me for the time it would take to do these jobs as proposed and do them right. :rolleyes:

Dougster
 

Dougster

Old Member
Hmmm, how about a 454 chevy powered tub grinder then? A big tank with a shaft with hammers spinning.... maybe not...someones liable to get hurt with that one.
You should have seen what we used down in Florida right after Hurricane Ivan. A 454 Chevy wouldn't have even turned those crazy monsters empty. :rolleyes:
I think Irwin rasied a good point though. If the land owner wants to burn a legal pile himself he might get less hassle than someone who was paid to do it. I experinced this with building inspectors out in Oregon. I heard rumurs about certian ones being totally unreasonable to my contractor buddies, but when they came to my little shop project they were totaly flexible occasionally made some non binding suggestions if needed and left.
I believe that in all cases, the homeowners must pull the open fire permits. Maybe Larry can confirm that for us.
Alot of people complain about property taxes around here, but compared to mass property taxes, I dont know if they are all that unreasonable. And then when you consider no sales or state income tax, I think I am coming out ahead, but you should go to a town meeting sometime if you want to here complaints!
Well, I gotta tell you that we were shocked beyond anything that we had been prepared for on that recent visit to your wonderful state. Keep in mind that this will become our retirement home eventually... so no state income tax and no state sales tax won't help us all that much under those later year circumstances. Trust me: We are used to high property taxes... but what we found was truly astonishing even to us. :eek:
Just get a single wide on a 1/2 acre and you are all set.
Don't laugh!!! :( If the ole' 401(k) keeps disappearing at the current rate, we'll be lucky to afford a single-wide anywhere. :rolleyes:

Dougster :starbucks:
 

Erik

Member
You folks are fast convincing me of the wisdom of pressing these clients yet again for a haul-away and pay-for-disposal solution. :( The only question remains: Let these clients discover the limitations, legal/physical pitfalls and potential costs for themselves? Or try to do it all on my own. :rolleyes:

Neither is going to be willing to pay me for the time it would take to do these jobs as proposed and do them right. :rolleyes:

Dougster

I think walking away a good idea on your part.
otherwise, write up 2 bids.
1 for a multi-day burn in place and a second for haul-away and let them choose.
maybe even find some competition in the area to give a second quote in hopes they beat you out on this one.

oh, yeah - and pray for snow!
 

Dougster

Old Member
I think walking away a good idea on your part. otherwise, write up 2 bids. 1 for a multi-day burn in place and a second for haul-away and let them choose. maybe even find some competition in the area to give a second quote in hopes they beat you out on this one. oh, yeah - and pray for snow!
I never walk away from anything anymore. But your point is taken. We'll just have to see where this goes.
Dougster, check this out...
http://airburners.com/?gclid=CICX0M2xupECFQIUPAodLyZwCQ
I built a garbage incinerator with this concept...works great. I'm not sure that you'd be able to adapt this idea on a cheap scale, but it's a great idea.
Mark
Obviously not practical given the cost in this case. We did use some monster burn pit blowers down in Florida before the costly tub grinders were authorized and brought it. The burn pits were too slow for the massive amount of hurricane debris and the ash caused a few off-site fires as well. :rolleyes:

Dougster :starbucks:
 
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