Roto-Tilling sumac?

chowhound

Member
I've got an area out back that has gone to hell. I was hoping high grasses and such would take it over if I left it alone, but sumac has. I was wondering if I could reclaim it by running my brush hog over the sumac, since they are all around the 1" diameter range, and then roto-tilling them. sumac is pretty soft and rooted shallow, so I thought this might be a plan.
What say ye, good plan or bad plan?
 

Erik

Member
have you tried hitting it with your loader bucket held about 2" above the dirt first? That might be enough to rip it out of the ground roots and all - or at least enough of them to not clog up your tiller.
I've done this with small honey locust with good effect.
 

chowhound

Member
That's a good idea, Erik. I'd like to find a way to mulch them up though.... break them into pieces so I won't have to drag them and add to my brush pile. I was kinda hoping the brush hog would do some of the chopping so the tiller wouldn't have to work as hard, but I didn't know tillers could clog either.
 

chowhound

Member
Just to say, Erik, I gave that a try today, running the loader barely off the ground over the sumac saplings. A little bark got rubbed off and they aren't standing up as straight, but not a one came out of the ground. I sure would have thought they would have popped out. So back to Plan A when the mood strikes me. It doesn't look like anyone here has tried this yet.
 

California

Super Moderator
Staff member
Site Supporter
Is sumac a woody plant? A rotary mower should do a good job of shattering what's above the surface so you don't have so much to entangle in the tiller.

I've used a rotary mower to shred blackberry jungle and it chopped it up well.

Then I tried the tiller on one spot of blackberries. That made an awful mess with strong vines wound around the axle like a giant ball of string. Don't anybody repeat my mistake. A curved linoleum knife helped a little for cutting the vines free; also a bowie knife with a saw-edge on part of the blade. But it took a long time. And I had only mowed 20 feet along the row of blackberries.

HF had curved linoleum/carpet knives on sale recently so I bought several. I'm going to weld one on a piece of conduit, to make a tool for cutting blackberry vines out of the tiller reaching in from each side. Even after the surface of the ground has been cleared with the rotary mower, blackberries have some lateral roots that the tiller will bring up.
 

Erik

Member
Just to say, Erik, I gave that a try today, running the loader barely off the ground over the sumac saplings. A little bark got rubbed off and they aren't standing up as straight, but not a one came out of the ground. I sure would have thought they would have popped out. So back to Plan A when the mood strikes me. It doesn't look like anyone here has tried this yet.
bummer - I hoped it would work the same as it did for the locust saplings.
Cali is right - the brush hog will chop them down and grind them up, just not sure how much root structure will be left underground to tie up your tiller blades.
Do you have a subsoiler or middle buster?
If yes, might be worth using it to break up roots before tilling by making a pass every couple of feet. (this would also make the tilling go easier, since the ground would then be disturbed)
 

chowhound

Member
I've got a subsoiler, Erik. That's an idea if I run into a problem.

Here's what Poison Sumacs look like, CA. (Pic 1 is the area I want to do and pic 2 is what they grow into.) They're "woody", but it's a spindly sapling kind of tree. I've yanked the bigger ones out before and they pop right out, but there's just too many for that in some areas. That's why I'm trying to find a better way. One where I don't need to leave the seat :biggrin:
 

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California

Super Moderator
Staff member
Site Supporter
... subsoiler or middle buster?
If yes, might be worth using it to break up roots before tilling
... or the ripping teeth on a box blade. Mow, rip, till.

Or maybe disc after mowing?

Thanks for the photo. I don't have any experience with poison sumac. Is that like poison oak, where you don't want to get the sap on your tractor or implements?
 

Erik

Member
you sure that's poison sumac?
looks a lot like the staghorn sumac we grow around here, they grow berries that are a sort of forage for wildlife, and also an old source for red dye when crushed up and mixed with ammonia & water. (still a weed, though, as far as pastures go)
 

chowhound

Member
I've always known it as poison sumac, though I'm not allergic to it and used to play in it as a kid. And I've never seen any berries on it.
I Googled it (poison sumac), but all I could find were pics of the leaves and red things (flowers?), not the whole tree, but what they showed for poison sumac looks exactly like this thing a month from now. I didn't know there were other varieties though. I'm going to Google the staghorn just to see.
 

Jeep

New member
poison sumac if you till or mower it, sumac will spread more the only way to get rid of it is dig it up by the root's I tried mowing it just got a bigger patch next time it came up had to dig it up Jeep
 
For those who aren't badly allergic, begin with the following supplies:
1 sharp pair of pruning sheers
1 pair of good rubber gloves (they must be fairly thick)
1 empty 3-pound coffee can (do not use plastic)
1 paintbrush
1 pint of diesel fuel
1 pint of commercial vegetation killer (2-4-D or a product containing 2-4-D is preferable, but is becoming much harder to find in most places)
Carefully mix the vegetation killer with the diesel in the coffee can. Vegetation killer is toxic, and diesel is a solvent, so take care to avoid splashes or contact with the skin.
Immediately clip the poison sumac or other plants you are trying to kill, to within a couple inches of the ground. Dip the brush in the poison mixture and liberally brush the fluid on the fresh cut, coating the cut completely.
The gloves, can, brush, and mixture should be discarded after treating the poison sumac.
What happens is this: The diesel, which again is a solvent, acts to suspend the poison. It functions to deliver the poison to the deepest roots by reverse capillary action. In other words, it soaks in through the cut in the plant and is drawn into the roots. The diesel isn't the killing agent, the herbicide is, but the diesel allows the poison to reach all the roots. This would not be possible with normal surface treatment.
Within a week or two, the sumac will be dead.
Remember though that seeds in the ground will still germinate and grow into more sumac plants, which is why the procedure should be repeated. The branches and limbs that are trimmed should also not be burned as the smoke can carry the poisons in the sumac and can cause allergic reactions in the people who breathe the smoke. Instead, bury them where they can decompose naturally.
Using this method will remove poison sumac and other hard to kill but unwanted plants, while causing minimal damage to other plants in the vicinity. Care must be taken when using this method, however if you want to get rid of poison sumac and don't want to spend hours of fruitless and back breaking digging to do it, this will get the job done.
 

chowhound

Member
That's similar to the way a landscape guy told me to get rid of it where it's in a ditch and I can't get the tractor to it. He said to cut it down and paint it with undiluted roundup. I've got one of those beaver blades for my DR string trimmer that I was going to cut them down with. Good tip on the diesel, Paul.
 

chowhound

Member
You're right, Erik. It's staghorn sumac. No wonder it has never bothered me. There's not much difference, but when you compare leaves, staghorn it is. Thanks.
 
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