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Old 02-12-2019, 05:46 PM
TahoeUsmc TahoeUsmc is offline
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Unhappy 2006 RTV900 Starting Issue

Hi everyone,

I have seen some similar issues here to what I am having but nothing in the fixes from the other threads seems to fix the issue. Also, upfront if anyone has a pdf of the service manual (or where to get one) that would be a great help!

When I turn the key all the lights come on, one more click glow plugs come on, then to "start" sometimes it starts sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it starts on the second try, sometimes it's the 50th. Sometimes you move the gear handle from neutral to gear and back and it will start, sometimes moving the e-brake does it. Basically, nothing seems to trigger it to start consistently.

I have replaced the starter, it has a new neutral safety switch and I cleaned and tested the ignition switch as well (all good). I tightened and checked all the battery connections (battery is new) also.

The only weird thing is that with the neutral switch unplugged it won't start at all BUT it also appears that the relay for that switch is missing (if I am right it is the furthest one to the passenger side on the mount?).

I am about to either;

a)jump the neutral switch or,
b) replace the ignition, starter relay, safety relay (which isn't even there now)

I am happy to replace whatever needs to be replaced but this issue REEKS of an electrical gremlin that I am just not able to chase down... every time I think I get it fixed it rears its head again.

Up for any and all thoughts here! Again, love the forum and thanks in advance for the help!
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Old 02-12-2019, 07:47 PM
v10rick v10rick is offline
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IMG_0099.jpg

Looking at the attached schematic the starting circuit is straightforward. The starter relay, ignition switch and safety switch are the only active components in the circuit to the starter.

When you say it won't start should we assume you do not hear the starter solenoid click?

If so a meter should help reveal where the circuit continuity is interrupted.

BTW
5 is the starter relay, 3 is the safety switch,4 is the hydraulic lever switch (turf model),2 is the ignition switch.

My manual does not have a pictorial of the electrical panel behind the seat. Its not the best manual for diagnosing electrical faults IMO.

Last edited by v10rick; 02-12-2019 at 07:59 PM.
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:31 PM
Terrawombat Terrawombat is offline
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You need to be more specific on what it means when you say "it doesn't start." I've heard this same complaint from automobile owners in the past, but what they really meant to say was "the engine doesn't turn over" meaning the starter motor doesn't engage and spin the motor over.

Based on the fact you say you can sometimes get it to start anywhere between the 2nd and 50th try and jiggling the gear selector has some sort of direct influence I'm going to assume you mean the engine doesn't turn over, rather than the engine doesn't start.

Since the e-brake has nothing to do with the "turning over" circuit, I'm going to say that fiddling with that and getting the engine to turn over is more coincidence than anything and has nothing to do with the root cause of the problem.

A cheap and quick test would be to replace the starter relay, which appears to be Kubota PN K7561-62410 (please double check that) with a price range of $10-$15.
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Old 02-12-2019, 10:30 PM
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bordercollie bordercollie is offline
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Hi TahoeUSMC ,What about the stop solenoid ? When it starts properly, and then its cut off , do you hear a "tink" kind of noise about 5 seconds afterwards ? That the noise, as I call it, when the stop solenoid's arm moves back into position to ready for the next time the key is turned. Sometimes the start solenoid will not cut the engine off when its going out but, sometimes it won't release for the next attempt to start and when key is turned just goes ana ana ana ..annaa. . On the older models , it's right there across from the air cleaner canister near top of engine . I had that happen and when it went" ananana ana anana " , I crawled under the passenger side near air intake and put a little pressure on the arm of solenoid and "bracket" (has a little red paint on it) .. mine popped back into place and she cranked right up. bordercollie
http://www.nettractortalk.com/forums...=stop+solenoid

See if stomping on the gas pedal several times makes it go " tink" makes it ...Maybe that could be what's happening when doing the other movements... anyways I hope this gremlin comes to light for you to find . collie
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Old 02-13-2019, 04:40 PM
TahoeUsmc TahoeUsmc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrawombat View Post
You need to be more specific on what it means when you say "it doesn't start." I've heard this same complaint from automobile owners in the past, but what they really meant to say was "the engine doesn't turn over" meaning the starter motor doesn't engage and spin the motor over.

Based on the fact you say you can sometimes get it to start anywhere between the 2nd and 50th try and jiggling the gear selector has some sort of direct influence I'm going to assume you mean the engine doesn't turn over, rather than the engine doesn't start.

Since the e-brake has nothing to do with the "turning over" circuit, I'm going to say that fiddling with that and getting the engine to turn over is more coincidence than anything and has nothing to do with the root cause of the problem.

A cheap and quick test would be to replace the starter relay, which appears to be Kubota PN K7561-62410 (please double check that) with a price range of $10-$15.

Terrawombat, my apologies. The engine doesn't turn over at all until it does if that makes sense. Turn key to "start" and nothing. When it does turn over it starts right away. One thing my wife mentioned to me (she is the main user of the thing) is that it always seems to start on the first try and the issue comes after it has warmed up a bit and then is shut down and try to restart.
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Old 02-13-2019, 04:44 PM
TahoeUsmc TahoeUsmc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bordercollie View Post
Hi TahoeUSMC ,What about the stop solenoid ? When it starts properly, and then its cut off , do you hear a "tink" kind of noise about 5 seconds afterwards ? That the noise, as I call it, when the stop solenoid's arm moves back into position to ready for the next time the key is turned. Sometimes the start solenoid will not cut the engine off when its going out but, sometimes it won't release for the next attempt to start and when key is turned just goes ana ana ana ..annaa. . On the older models , it's right there across from the air cleaner canister near top of engine . I had that happen and when it went" ananana ana anana " , I crawled under the passenger side near air intake and put a little pressure on the arm of solenoid and "bracket" (has a little red paint on it) .. mine popped back into place and she cranked right up. bordercollie
http://www.nettractortalk.com/forums...=stop+solenoid

See if stomping on the gas pedal several times makes it go " tink" makes it ...Maybe that could be what's happening when doing the other movements... anyways I hope this gremlin comes to light for you to find . collie
bordercollie the stop solenoid is functioning properly. Should have included that before, sorry about that, and it is a "no start" when this happens, the engine doesn't crank or turn over at all. Then on another try, something will change and it will start...out of curiosity besides the neutral safety switch are there any other safety switches that could be shorted out? Sounds like I should replace the starter relay before trying anything else?? Thanks!
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Old 02-13-2019, 05:32 PM
TahoeUsmc TahoeUsmc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v10rick View Post
Attachment 11841

Looking at the attached schematic the starting circuit is straightforward. The starter relay, ignition switch and safety switch are the only active components in the circuit to the starter.

When you say it won't start should we assume you do not hear the starter solenoid click?

If so a meter should help reveal where the circuit continuity is interrupted.

BTW
5 is the starter relay, 3 is the safety switch,4 is the hydraulic lever switch (turf model),2 is the ignition switch.


My manual does not have a pictorial of the electrical panel behind the seat. Its not the best manual for diagnosing electrical faults IMO.


v10rick do you know where the hydraulic switch is located on that machine? That's one I haven't checked and makes me wonder that maybe the moving of the e-brake is joslting something there to make it start...
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Old 02-13-2019, 05:35 PM
Terrawombat Terrawombat is offline
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No need to apologize - just easier for me to help you if I have more information. Thanks for providing the clarification.

Relays have a lifespan and can have a period where they'll intermittently work before completely dying. One thing you can try is to gently knock on the starter relay while holding the key in the start/run position to see if the engine suddenly cranks over. That would be a clear indication to me that the relay is on it's way out. Where it is located, I cannot tell you. The best I can tell from the online parts diagrams is that it is under a large cover located behind the fuel tank. Once that cover is removed there will be two relays and a timer (which probably resembles a relay) mounted to a metal panel. The starter relay should be the one in the middle. Sorry I cannot be of more help, but I have zero experience and knowledge of the RTV900.
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Old 02-13-2019, 05:43 PM
TahoeUsmc TahoeUsmc is offline
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I will definitely try that and I am working on trying to find a generic part number for the relay now to see if Napa has it for some other application as opposed to having to order it. The timer relay seems to work fine but I am thinking I will replace the safety relay and the start relay as it seems that could easily be the culprit.
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Old 02-13-2019, 07:57 PM
rbarger rbarger is offline
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My 2005 RTV did the same thing and it was the starter solenoid contacts. Replaced the contacts and solved the problem.
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Old 02-14-2019, 07:50 AM
quid_non quid_non is offline
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My 2007 RTV900 has something similar - - - I cleaned both battery posts and cable connectors well AND disconnected/cleaned the chassis ground connection. solved my problem.
Keep us posted if you figure your specific problem out!
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Old 02-14-2019, 09:57 AM
TahoeUsmc TahoeUsmc is offline
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Thanks everyone. I’ve got both the start and safety relay on the way and will clean everything (one at a time to see if I can isolate what was actually causing it). I will report back if I figure anything out (or not)!
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Old 02-19-2019, 11:43 PM
TahoeUsmc TahoeUsmc is offline
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Does anyone have an actual diagram or photo of the panel that shows what each relay is for? I am realizing what thought was a safety relay actually isn't. You have the fuel stop relay, next to that is the start relay, what is to the right of that?? Also I have to plugs with nothing plugged into them that I don't know what they are for! Update: My "ah-ha" moment came when replacing the starter relay. I unplugged the old one, put the new one in and mount it up went to start it....and nothing...thinking "You've got to be kidding me!?" Went back and looked at the relay to make sure it was plugged in tight and something in the plug caught my eye. A red wire to nowhere...a jump wire on two terminals of the plug...from best I can tell that is how the neutral safety switch was jumped and the janky piece of wire just shoved in there would occasionally not make proper contact and it wouldn't start. Explains why my wife thought jostling around the gear lever to neutral fixed it. So long story short I think that was the issue and not the relays. So beware of previous owners and their rewiring "magic"...it doesn't always work out for the best! I will keep everyone posted if I find anything else.

Last edited by TahoeUsmc; 02-20-2019 at 12:04 AM.
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Old 02-20-2019, 06:56 AM
quid_non quid_non is offline
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Glad you made progress!
Any pictures to share so we can see where exactly that pesky wire is located?
Thanks
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Old 02-20-2019, 11:59 AM
TahoeUsmc TahoeUsmc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quid_non View Post
Glad you made progress!
Any pictures to share so we can see where exactly that pesky wire is located?
Thanks
I will try and take some later today. I'm usually gone before light and home after dark but I'll get one here eventually. Looking at the full wiring diagram it looks like it was a jump from the lead wire that goes from the switch to the other side of the relay. Electrical is definitely not my strong suit so I do a lot of hunting and pecking for problems and solutions.
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