Starting issues got me stumped!

First off The problem rtv is a 2014 x1100c,and has not given one hint of any trouble

until this cold snap we are presently in. Around Christmas day the rtv was tried to be

started, it was given the glow cycle and then turned to start no click or anything

happened. I thought the battery first and checked the voltage and it was 12.6 so the

next day same thing happened again when the rtv was tried to start. next the battery

was removed and load tested and checked good. Re-tried again and the same thing only

this time I cycled the the key on/off a couple of times and it fired right off. It was

started and stopped several times through the day and worked great. The next day it did

the same thing again and cycling the key worked again. So my first thought is bad key

switch. Fast forward several days of this and now the switch needs a lot of cycles to

get it to start. Now I'm puzzled because when it does start it will restart the way it

is supposed to for around 6-8 hrs after first start, only the next day to repeat itself all over

again. I have researched and tried the neutral wiggling of the shifter while trying to

start, could this be the neutral switch, starter, key switch. I'm prone to think

starter but if anyone has an opinion on how to better zero in on the problem I sure

would like your advice. I am not blessed with a nice heated workshop so working on this

will be kinda on the cold side. Just a note during when this happens it takes a few key

cycles to even get the starter sol.click to be heard and a few more to get the starter

to crank. Thanks in advance.

Hi and welcomeYeehaw48 to the best forum around with lots of nice folks.
Have you tried to tap the fuel pedal hard? When my stop solenoid went out , it would turn over but not crank without a good heavy tap or stomp of the fuel pedal. But you should hear it attempt to crank with that problem.
The neutral safety switch - when it goes, usually you hear nothing but silence when turning the key. There are several threads on here about both of these problems. I have also replaced these 2 items during the many years of ownership, as well as the key switch when my machine started by itself more than once- blamed sweet old Belle (laying down in my picture and now dearly departed.) bordercollie

http://www.nettractortalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13174&highlight=safety+switch

http://www.nettractortalk.com/forums...ht=starts+gear

also found this http://www.nettractortalk.com/forum...48&highlight=neutral+safety+switch#post117048

i suspect the solenoid on the starter after reading your description. most of the time a weak or bad solenoid will work fine when it is heated by the engine and cause problems when cold. you could confirm by placing a clamp on 12 volt test light to the wire that activates the solenoid. if it lights up but you don't get a click you know the circuit is ok. if the light stays out then you know to check the neutral safety switch or the key switch. the same test light can be used to test the neutral safety switch. make sure the starter is bolted up good and tight also. a loose starter has a bad ground and will show intermittent issues

I second Aurthuritis's diagnosis, my '06 900 is having the same problems, just not bad enough for me to work on it outside, even in Texas.
Bryce

thanks everyone for your valued time to offer some suggestions, will try some if weather will cooperate just a little.

yeehaw48, I have the same machine and was having an identical problem, when below freezing it would not even try to turn over, it happened to me when I was at my cabin in WV without any tools. I tapped on the starter with a piece of re-bar and it started right up, and started the rest of the day with no problem, the next day same thing. It was still under warranty so I got the dealer to send me a replacement starter, the old starter had a lot of rust on it. The new starter worked fine to start it that day, but the next morning when I tried to unload it from my trailer the same thing. There is a drain plug with a copper washer on the bottom of the bell housing, when I pulled that I got at least a cup of water out. I believe the water was freezing the starter bendix and locking the starter, if the solenoid pulls in it will generate enough heat to thaw it out. The dealer told me the water was coming from condensation, I rinse the unit off before I put it away ,but try to be careful and not get any water around the rubber plug in the top of the bell housing. I ended up drilling a small hole in the bottom plug so it can drain, I don't run through any water at this point, but I do need to be aware of that if I do.
Hope this helps,
Pete

VA1100 said:

yeehaw48, I have the same machine and was having an identical problem, when below freezing it would not even try to turn over, it happened to me when I was at my cabin in WV without any tools. I tapped on the starter with a piece of re-bar and it started right up, and started the rest of the day with no problem, the next day same thing. It was still under warranty so I got the dealer to send me a replacement starter, the old starter had a lot of rust on it. The new starter worked fine to start it that day, but the next morning when I tried to unload it from my trailer the same thing. There is a drain plug with a copper washer on the bottom of the bell housing, when I pulled that I got at least a cup of water out. I believe the water was freezing the starter bendix and locking the starter, if the solenoid pulls in it will generate enough heat to thaw it out. The dealer told me the water was coming from condensation, I rinse the unit off before I put it away ,but try to be careful and not get any water around the rubber plug in the top of the bell housing. I ended up drilling a small hole in the bottom plug so it can drain, I don't run through any water at this point, but I do need to be aware of that if I do.
Hope this helps,
Pete

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Thank you . one trick we use on our caterpillar tractors is to drill a hole in the drain plug on the dry cavities and then put a small cotter pin in the hole and bend the tabs so they are on the inside. when you wiggle the cotter pin it frees the hole of any dirt and helps keep things dry.

Turn on headlights and hit the starter. If the lights dim, your starter is engaging. I suspect freezing of the starter driven gear also. Ran into this more than once in Alaska. Btw thanks to all you 48'ers for taking custody of our cold for awhile. You're welcome to it for as long as you like. Above zero F is a nice break from the 40 below F we usually have this time of year.

foxalaska said:

Btw thanks to all you 48'ers for taking custody of our cold for awhile. You're welcome to it for as long as you like. Above zero F is a nice break from the 40 below F we usually have this time of year.

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Screw this! I'm sick of this damn cold. The high for the last month has been in the teens. Tonight's forecast is -10° and that will be the high for tomorrow.

foxalaska said:

Turn on headlights and hit the starter. If the lights dim, your starter is engaging. I suspect freezing of the starter driven gear also. Ran into this more than once in Alaska. Btw thanks to all you 48'ers for taking custody of our cold for awhile. You're welcome to it for as long as you like. Above zero F is a nice break from the 40 below F we usually have this time of year.

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So You are the one that left the door open

Zoom count me in on that too.I don't see how my northern friends can take it all winter.. It was 14 here the other night and not above freezing for 2 days or so. It's been as low as 14 this week with 17 and 39 today warming to 45 tomorrow with 23 for a low then.. It's the wind that gets me though .Add cold toes and fingers= misery. But .. gotta break water troughs open and feed cows regardless..... Supposed to be near 60 next week so hang in there. collie

just an update, first thanks to Foxalaska, for the hint on the lights and everyone else that gave some very valuable info. I have a voltmeter and a dc ampmeter and with the help of my wife we went out and I checked the battery voltage and current, the no-load voltage was 12.8v, with just glow plugs on current was around 25 amps but when tried to start the current jumped to 50 amps and voltage to 12.2. So I know that my starter is more than likely frozen, will have to wait till it above freezing to even try to remove(these ole 70 yr bones don't work like they use too). My question is how did this moisture get in it to start, I'll maybe know more when I can get a closer look. Thanks everyone.

do you use a pressure washer on or around the starter? could be forcing moisture into the starter.

Going to try and start mine, don't get freezing weather very often in Fl.

aurthuritis said:

do you use a pressure washer on or around the starter? could be forcing moisture into the starter.

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no never have used a pressure washer on it. It has gone thru water maybe 6 in deep, surely that wouldn;t do it.

yeehaw48 said:

just an update, first thanks to Foxalaska, for the hint on the lights and everyone else that gave some very valuable info. I have a voltmeter and a dc ampmeter and with the help of my wife we went out and I checked the battery voltage and current, the no-load voltage was 12.8v, with just glow plugs on current was around 25 amps but when tried to start the current jumped to 50 amps and voltage to 12.2. So I know that my starter is more than likely frozen, will have to wait till it above freezing to even try to remove(these ole 70 yr bones don't work like they use too). My question is how did this moisture get in it to start, I'll maybe know more when I can get a closer look. Thanks everyone.

Click to expand...

If glow plugs stay on during starter run then 50amps is too low for a locked rotor condition, so you may not find any water in there. Maybe a open circuit when cold then attempted starts warms it up, closes the gap.

yeehaw48 said:

no never have used a pressure washer on it. It has gone thru water maybe 6 in deep, surely that wouldn;t do it.

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i wouldn't consider 6 inches water fording to be extreme. have you checked the drain plug on the bell housing? it reminds me of the starter solenoid contacts getting carboned up. does the starter drag when it does start? let me ask if this is the order>>> turn key/click but no starter rotation or is it >>>turn key/ no click no starter rotation???

aurthuritis said:

i wouldn't consider 6 inches water fording to be extreme. have you checked the drain plug on the bell housing? it reminds me of the starter solenoid contacts getting carboned up. does the starter drag when it does start? let me ask if this is the order>>> turn key/click but no starter rotation or is it >>>turn key/ no click no starter rotation???

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First noticed was turn key no click no rotation, but now I'm able to be outside to better hear it turn key click heard and no rotation. have not checked drain plug just yet, -1 actual air temp.BBBBRRRRRRRR

yeehaw48 said:

First noticed was turn key no click no rotation, but now I'm able to be outside to better hear it turn key click heard and no rotation. have not checked drain plug just yet, -1 actual air temp.BBBBRRRRRRRR

Click to expand...

since you hear a click after turning the key to the start position.that click you hear is the starter solenoid engaging. the starter solenoid is just an electro magnet that when it is engaged moves forward and closes the contact and trhrows the bendix into the ring gear on the flywheel at the same time. if the contacts in the solenoid are corroded or carboned burned then the electricity flow to the starter motor is disrupted and no spin. you can remove the starter and replace the solenoid but if the motor brushes are worn you will probably have to replace them to. my opinion is just get a new starter. sometimes tapping on the started while holding the key will get it to engage.

I have a similar issue with one of my ATV's. If the solenoid clicks, that normally means it is good. If no click, bad or loose wiring to the solenoid.

Mine clicks but wouldn't turn over. The tapping on the starter has worked every time to get it running. I bought a new starter but it's 0° outside so I'm not replacing it until it goes above freezing.