Interested in an outdoor (or indoor) woodburner

Doc

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But I know nothing about them. I have wood available on my property, but is it best to consider one that can burn coal or pellets also?

What are some of the better makes f these burners?
Where did you buy yours?

Any info you can think to share would be appreciated.
 

bczoom

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Doc - to give us some reference points.

When plumbing into the house, do you plan on connecting it to an air handler or baseboards/radiators or pex through floors and let it radiate?

Do you have any fireplaces or woodstoves inside your house now? Any chimneys?

Do I assume correctly you have a basement?
 

Doc

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Good questions BC.
I was hoping to hook into existing duct-work and use the whole house furnace fan to move the air. No baseboard radiators.

One fireplace insert with triple wall chimney. It is a wood burner but since we currently have free gas I converted it over to gas for now. Our well was capped off last year and so far we still have gas to heat with but, I know it won't last forever ...even though I wish it would. I've heard of some lasting 15 years after being capped. Maybe I could be so lucky but in the mean time I prefer to plan for the worst.

The fireplace is located at the far end of he house in the family room. Not centrally located at all.

Yes, we have a basement and that is where the forced air furnace and duct-work are located.
 

bczoom

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I'm avoiding brands as I'm not familiar with what's out there. It would be nice if Muley was still with us as he used to sell and install them.

The install should be pretty easy. In general but not specifically in this order, Build a slab, place the wood burner, insulated/underground pex into the house and to your furnace and install an A-coil in the air handler.

OK, some other things to consider.

Do you have any out-buildings like a shop you want to heat? Many of these produce enough to heat more than one building.

Location is key. Figuring where you live, the winds come from the north and west. To keep the smoke out, you'll need the wood stove installed to the south and east. Stove stack should be higher than your roof for those days when the wind comes in from the wrong way. Also consider access as it relates to terrain, snow drifts... as you'll need to get to the stove with the RTV or tractor as well as on foot.

Connect to hot water tank? You can heat your water as well.

I hope you like cutting firewood. The outdoor stoves like to eat... a lot. Ask Mark (Sibole). I heat with indoor airtight stoves and burn about 3.5 cord/year. I think Mark said he burns double that and I know someone with an outdoor that burns double what Mark does - a whopping 15 cord/year. Labor wise, I don't think it's much more since you can toss in very large pieces but you'll need a good amount of trees.
 

California

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Oh.

I had thought about wood heat here, there's always downed trees every year in this old apple orchard. But nowhere near the volume of firewood like that.

Also since half of the downed trees are rotten, punky, there wouldn't be near the heat value of equivalent real firewood.

Maybe solar heated water would be a better project.
 

bczoom

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Are you even allowed to burn in CA anymore? (partial but not full sarcasm).

Apple burns nicely. For your area, a little wood burner in the house may be all you need. My 3.5 cord is running one (indoor) wood stove 24/7 for 4-5 months and the 2nd wood stove when it goes below 20° (which was half of Dec and all of last week).
 

California

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I think any new stove here has to be a certified clean-burn design, then there are occasional 'Spare The Air' days when particulate contamination exceeds healthy limits and no wind to move the crud elsewhere.

But in general, some neighbors have glass-front conforming fireplaces and rely on them (with ductwork) for primary heat.

I think my punky junk wood from fallen apple trees isn't near the quality of the split oak the neighbors have delivered by the trailerload.


What about burning Eucalyptus? That grows like weeds in the canyon at the back of the property. (Photo) The smaller trees could be cut for fuel.
 

bczoom

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Don't have any Eucalyptus around her so I looked it up for the west coast.
Apparently, it's awesome for burning. About the same as oak.
http://firewoodresource.com/firewood-btu-ratings/

Pull up the details on it. If you don't properly manage the air, to throttle the burn back a little, it can get screaming hot.
 

Doc

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Thanks guys. Got me thinking ...I might be better off with an efficent free standing stove in my basement. I'm assuming I could still have an offshoot hooking it into my duct work to help with heating whole house ...and that would keep things toasting in the basement where now it's normally extra kewl.

I'm simply considering all options.
 

bczoom

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Do you have a walk-out basement or do you have a flight of stairs? If the latter, it can be a real PITA carrying firewood down there.

I have a multi-level house, kind of a split, with 4 levels. The 2 middle levels each have an airtight wood burner. I run the stove on the lower level for normal heat needs (down to about 20°). I fire up the 2nd stove for temps below that. Obviously, heat rises so that does a lot of the air movement but I also turn the furnace fan to the "ON" position which runs the fan on low-speed all the time. Furnace fans can run 24/7 for years without issue and they use very little electricity. I do this with mine so it equalizes temps and humidity in the basement so I don't need to run a dehumidifier in the summer and keeps it warmer in the winter.

If I had a "do over" on mine, I'd set it up where the combustion chamber uses outside air (you run a duct from outside into the woodstove) and preferably another duct that pulls air from outside into the stove and run through the blower to blow air into the house. If your combustion chamber uses indoor air and sends that up the chimney, that air needs replaced so it pulls cold air from outside from any nook or cranny it can find throughout the house. Using outdoor air negates that. Pulling outside air over the stove and blowing it into the room creates an over pressure in the house compared to outside. Instead of cold air coming in every crack it can find, the over pressure then pushes air out the cracks thus negating drafts.

I bring wood trailer(s) to the back of the house. From there, I transfer to Rubbermaid totes like what's pictured below. Make sure you get the soft plastic totes. The hard ones are brittle in the winter and crack easily. Using those totes, they're easy to carry right to the stove. They also keep any mess or bugs inside the tote so the area indoors stays cleaner. I keep about 6-8 totes in play. Fill them all off the trailer then stack next to the back door. When I need one, I just step out the door and grab it.

41806-rubbermaid-roughneck-18-gallon-blue-tote-set-of-12_1_375.jpg
 

California

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Don't have any Eucalyptus around her so I looked it up for the west coast.
Apparently, it's awesome for burning. About the same as oak.
http://firewoodresource.com/firewood-btu-ratings/

Pull up the details on it. If you don't properly manage the air, to throttle the burn back a little, it can get screaming hot.
Thanks for that firewood link!

As he said, Eucalyptus is near impossible to split if you don't get it soon after cutting.

The tall slender variety was planted all over the west coast a century ago as a windbreak. It won't tolerate freezing so its not suitable in colder regions.

I've been told it isn't useful for heating because the resin will clog a chimney then cause a disastrously hot chimney fire - but I didn't see that view supported in the text you linked.

This photo shows how tall the Eucalyptus windbreak is here. Some of these trees have 30-50 ft of height before they appear above the brow of the ravine.

Also shown - I use those soft plastic tubs for family harvest. (persimmons in the photo).
 

Doc

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Sounds like a good system Brian. Thankfully I have a walk out basement. Nice and open so I can pull the rtv or tractor right up to it. Came in handy when unloading a gun safe down there.

Outside air would be a huge plus. If anyone knows of an indoor high efficiency wood stove that can use outside air ...and can hook into duct work please post a link. Thanks.
 

bczoom

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Doc - There's a ton of good brands out there. If they weren't good, they wouldn't be in business anymore.

I'd suggest you look in your area for what's available. Have ideas on what you want (as well as house size and such) and go start talking to dealers. In another month or 2, they'll be wanting to dump the overstock for the year and would probably give you a nice deal. I'd recommend they do the initial install.

As for what's important on the stove itself (besides esthetics), you want something that meets the newest burning laws or whatever. IMHO, and if they're still out there, avoid catalytic converters. They had their time but there's new, easy methods that don't need the extra stuff. My new wood burners don't use that catalytic and a) burn incredibly clean and b) only need half as much wood. When the wood stove is burning properly (at temp), there is absolutely nothing visible or that can be smelled out the chimney.
 

Doc

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I'm just toying with the idea ...and need to get used to retirement income, so I will use the next year or so to get familiar and decide if I want to get one or not. Thanks for the help!!!!!

Any suggestions on best chimney pipe? Do all of them need cleaned just as often as others?
 

bczoom

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Do you have an existing chimney that would be used? (You can't share with other appliances like HW tank or gas/oil furnace).

If you're going to put in a new chimney, you're pretty much going to be limited to double wall stainless steel pipe. Don't install anything until you pick out your stove because you'll need to have the correct size based on the draw needed for the stove itself.

Make sure you're sitting down when you see the price for the pipe. Figuring you're sitting down while reading this, figure $30/foot + installation. For a rough idea, measure from your basement floor to the peak of your roof.

As for cleaning, it depends more on how often you burn, the type of wood you're burning, how dry the wood is and how you maintain your fires. Inspect every year and clean as needed. If you have a straight pipe from the stove all the way up, it's easy to clean yourself. Spend $30 for a chimney sweep and do it annually. It takes longer to set up the ladder and get the chimney cap off than it does to do the actual sweep.
 

Doc

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Yeah, I priced that pipe in the 80's and remember it was like gold. Way out of my price range at that time. So no stove.

For this project hoping to be able to do a straight shot up, but have not done all the preliminary work to be sure that is even possible. Thanks for the input Brian.
 

bczoom

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Since you have free gas for now, the ROI probably isn't there for you. If your gas goes away, what are you then going to heat with? If you have a gas furnace, are you going to switch to LP? Do you have a heat pump or straight A/C?

For me, it was a no-brainer since I have electric heat. I already had a chimney so putting in a pair of wood burners was about $4K. Heating with electric would run me $600-1000 per year. My ROI is then between 4-7 years.
 

Doc

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I have not gotten that far. I used to pay a lot more than $1000 per year for gas heat in town. Course it was a huge older home. But even the old tri level we had in Cols cost an average of 2 to 3k per year for gas.

I do have a heat pump but that is only good down to 20 degrees, maybe not even that far, so another heat source would be required. I planned to add a LP tank and switch out orifices so that I could heat with LP. I think that would be cheaper than the heat pump but that is only a guess. I have 45 acres of wooded terrain, so for off the grid purposes as well as keeping heating costs down I'm interested in a wood alternative.
 

bczoom

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Sounds like you need an "all of the above" solution.

When the gas runs out, you're going to need a commercial solution. You can either switch to LP or replace the furnace with electric. Dropping in a LP tank and plumbing it in has a cost that may be similar to putting in a new electric unit. Be advised, if you switch to electric then use those electric coils in the furnace as opposed to heat pump or another source, it can get pricey. I think mine has 4 coils that some on in stages. Each is 5KW. If it kicks on all 4, that's 20KW or about $2 per hour. Another disadvantage of electric heat is your generator needs to be a lot larger. You could probably run your whole house on a 7KW genset when using gas. I'm all electric and my 15KW isn't big enough to run any heating (other than the fans on the wood stoves). I'd have to go to 20KW to run the heat pump and 30KW if I want to even think about turning on the electric furnace. Because I heat with wood, my electric furnace is only used a couple hours each winter.

On the heat pump, I don't know what you have but if it's somewhat new it probably isn't costing much to run. Mine is about 12 years old and is a 5-ton unit. Whether running for heat or A/C in the summer, I've found it to be about $1 per day avg, even on extreme hot days where it runs 12-16 hours straight. Some new heat pumps have a cold weather something but they're good down to something like 0°.

If I were in your shoes and anticipating the gas going out.

First, I'd go with LP over electric.

I'd look into buying (not renting) something like a 500 gallon propane tank. Get it in place and plumbed into the house but capped and not yet connected to anything. Buy whatever parts are needed to plumb in your furnace, water tank, oven, dryer... Watch the prices for propane then get it filled when the price is low. That propane can sit for years. It doesn't go bad.

Remember, you're only going to know your current gas is gone when you're using some heating appliance it it doesn't work. If it's the dead of winter and your furnace doesn't have gas, you're now in trouble. If you have all the LP components on-site and plumbed to the house, you (or a HVAC tech) can relatively quickly switch your appliances to LP. If you don't have the LP ready, it may be days to get it all in and then you're at their mercy for pricing. Also hope your house/pipes don't freeze.

Now that you know you can keep your house functioning, look at a wood burning solution. With even 5-10 acres of woods, you have an endless supply for a house. You already have the big tools needed for harvesting (tractor, RTV...). A decent saw and a couple small tools and you're up and running. As you consider a wood solution, start getting firewood to the house area (out of the woods). To let the wood season properly, you'll want to be at least 2 years ahead. You can always sell it if you get too far ahead or decide against a wood burner. Until you pick a stove, I'd cut your chunks to 15-17". Most any wood burner can take that size. If you cut at 20" and the one you want only handles up to 18", you're screwed.

Now that I've spent all your time and money for the next year or 2, you now have plenty of time (1-2 years) to think about what you really want for a wood burning solution. :)
 

zionview

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Doc, I put an outside building up for my wood burner. I ran heat and return lines underground the 10 feet to my shop. I'm still getting the bugs out of it as a system, but the main reason I went with a remote stove is insurance. The stove itself wasn't expensive. I paid more for my saws and splitter. I bought a stove rated for 1600 sq. feet to heat a space 1200 sq. ft. It takes up to 26" billets. That being said, a good friend has run outside wood stoves for many years and really likes them. The insulation on his latest one is impressive. He heats water in the summer with 1-2 billets a week. If I were you and had that much woodland, I wouldn't even consider a pellet stove.
 
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