Compact Tractor Pricing?

Melensdad

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Dealer wants $15,750 for a new 2010 Cub/Yanmar ex3200 with FEL.

Another $950 for a rear remote to be added.

The remote $ seems pretty steep. The tractor price seems pretty reasonable for a 32 horsepower, granted its a pretty basic tractor, no mid-PTO, just rear, nothing fancy other than the HST transmission, FEL and shiny paint. But Yanmar makes a great engine so I have no worries about that.

Kubota B3200 without the FEL was in the $19K range. Could that be right???
 

Melensdad

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I see that Kioti now makes a 34hp tractor in the "CK" deluxe line up. I have always felt the CK30 was too heavy for its horsepower but a 34hp option in the same frame all of a sudden looks interesting. And they offer free FELs. Closest dealer is 30 miles away, he is also a 'lawn & garden' place which I do not find comforting. But he's been selling Kioti for several years so maybe he knows what he is doing. Anyone know the price of a CK35hst?

Digging a bit more, while the questionable Kioti dealer is 30 miles away, there is an established Bobcat dealer 30 miles to my west who sells the Bobcat version of the CK35 (ct235) . . . their build & price system came up with a price of just over $18K for a CT235 with loader, industrials, mid-PTO . . .
 

EastTexFrank

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Bob, why are you looking for another tractor? I thought you almost had a full set? What are you going to use this one for?

As far as your choices are concerned, I can't help much, not at all really, because I know nothing about Kioti or Cub Cadet.
 

Melensdad

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Frank, the New Holland has gotten too small. Since buying the Ventrac the NH is almost never used for mowing. And being as small as it is it is a great mowing tractor but only a marginal dirt moving tractor. My projects seem to be getting bigger again so a bigger tractor with more capacity would be ideal. I could get by with the NH but it will just take a whole lot longer to get things done.
 

Erik

Member
the CK/Bobcat with its extra mass will be a better dirt (or snow) mover than the Kub or CC.
Industrials are pretty turf friendly, and are the most puncture resistant of the tires available for compact tractors.
I think these are cat 1 machines, so you may need bushings for your existing implements.
Also - is it narrow enough to fit through your gates or down your paths?
 

Melensdad

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Yup they are cat 1, which is good because that is what I have so no bushings/adapters needed.

Physically the CK/Bobcat is the biggest machine, its similar to the Kubota L3400 in size so that is a downside but it is a much more feature filled tractor than either the L series Kubota or the "ex" series from Cub.

Honestly the early Kioti tractors scared the heck out of me with reliability issues and I do not like the lawn & garden center type dealerships that sell lawnmowers, etc. But now that Bobcat picked up the tractor line I know there are qualified mechanics and the local dealer is a strong dealership so I know there will be someone to stand behind the machine. I am only semi-handy, I want/need/demand a good dealer to back me up. Kioti seems to have followed the path of opening up dealerships of low quality, at least they did that when they started, perhaps they are weeding out the weaker dealers? I know the local dealer is not one of their premium dealers. I don't have that fear with Bobcat.
 

OhioTC18

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Bob, Have you tried to sit on or use each one?
The $950 for remotes on the Cub/Yanmar is a bit high I think, but the prices on remotes skyrocketed a few years ago.
I would not hesitate on any of the brands you mentioned, but you seem to like what Bobcat is offering.
 

Melensdad

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Not yet sat on, tried, tested the Bobcat.

I hope to do that tomorrow. The reality is that I will not buy the Kioti, largely because of the dealership. The lawn & garden dealer is a deal breaker for me, I want a real tractor dealer with real diesel mechanics and actual hydraulic experts, to stand behind my tractor if there is a real problem.

But I will be looking at the Bobcat variation of the Kioti, specifically the ct235 tractor. I think the ck30/ct230 is underpowered for its weight, but the ct235 looks reasonable. While the 230 and 235 both have the same hydraulic capacity for loader and 3pt, the added hp of the 235 makes it a reasonable tractor for PTO use as well, despite the heavy & large for class size.

The fact is that the ct235 has a long established Bobcat dealer network standing behind it and they offer real hydraulic experts and real diesel mechanics. The Kioti is sold by a lawn & garden guy. Hmmmm. Big difference between these dealerships. So the Kioti is a no-go for me. The Bobcat is ONLY in consideration because of their $2600 rebate which pays for most of a FEL. That puts the Bobcat at about $1000 more than the Kioti but the dealer support, over the long haul, would be worth the extra money.
 

Melensdad

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Is a New Holland 2035 worth roughly $5500 more than a Bobcat ct235, both with FEL and similar features.
 

Erik

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um, not if you like both dealers/service departments and the oprating platforms/seats are comfortable?
 

Melensdad

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um, not if you like both dealers/service departments and the oprating platforms/seats are comfortable?

Bobcat is delivering (or supposed to be) a ct235 to me tomorrow to test. So I'll find out if it is what it is claimed to be. The seat on the Bobcat is an upgraded industrial full suspension seat, not the standard seat. That is all they have in stock. So I have to presume the Bobcat seat will be more cushy soft on my delicate behind than the NH 2035 seat, just as I prefer Charmin to Scott tissue :wink:

Dealerships are equal. Both are well respected. NH is 20 miles closer to me, Bobcat is just under 30 miles away.
 

Melensdad

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The B3200 is a nice tractor, the specs on it are similar to the Cub/Yanmar (some are better, some not) and the price is similar to the Cub/Yanmar. But the specs are not even close to the Bobcat ct235 or the New Holland 2035. The Bobcat and the NH both have a larger frame size, and higher capacities.

This is really my whole problem. My little TC24d has specs that really are not too far from the small/mid Kubotas (B series) and not too far from the Cub/Yanmar so there really is no real reason for me to 'upgrade' to those since I already have a tractor that gives me 85 to 90% of the capacity. Why should I pay for such a small performance upgrade?

Consequently I need to go up the next size to get any real performance upgrade, that takes me to the Bobcat or the New Holland.
 

Melensdad

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Dealer just hauled away the Bobcat ct235 after my demo.

First off I am impressed with the value of this machine. Great price for a very capable machine. There were lots of easy to reach dipsticks and filler ports that did not require a contortionist to find or access. The loader control was in exactly the right spot, most of the controls were in good locations, the steering tilted and adjusted within a wide range, the suspension seat was a WONDERFUL feature... just like Charmin, it was soft but got the job done :brows: Probably best tractor seat I've ever had the pleasure of sitting in, it was apparently adapted to this tractor from some of the commercial Bobcat equipment. Levers for PTO, 3pt, etc were in good, but perhaps not perfect locations. I'd have preferred them moved forward a few inches but that could be just nitpicking. The loader is not the same loader as the Kioti loader, not sure who makes it, but apparently its being redesigned. Perhaps waiting until the next generation would probably eliminate the current loader incentive. I gathered that the supplier was having trouble getting them loaders and that is the reason they are changing, so a change is not performance based.

Secondly I am critical of several points, and some of them may be deal breakers. There is a hydraulic filter that sticks down under the tractor that is exposed and vulnerable to be knocked off. Is it likely it would be knocked off? Probably not on my property, but if I was a commercial buyer I would seriously consider that as a problem. The hydraulic quick connectors are under the right side of the loader arm, parallel to the ground, at the bottom of the framework and MIGHT be vulnerable to being knocked apart, hit, etc by branches, debris, etc. I think working in the woods could be an issue with this tractor if it was used for clearing scrub, etc.

One thing that I really did not like, seriously think is a design flaw, is the lever to engage the 4wd. It is 1" above the floor in front of the left foot. You have to take your eyes off your forward travel and reach WAY DOWN to engage the 4wd. That is a problem. I found it very very awkward. Another problem with this location is the proximity to the differential lock. Its located right next to the differential lock at essentially the same elevation. I honestly think that it would be pretty easy, when trying to engage the differential lock, to accidently put your foot on the 4wd lever and disengage the 4wd when you actually needed the added traction afforded by the differential lock.

Now those bad things aside, this was a comfortable tractor to run. Even if the ergonomics are "last generation" compared to the New Holland 2030/2035, the tractor was still powerful, capable, comfortable and clearly will do what I want done. The engine ran as smooth as the engine on the New Hollands and was actually quieter than the engine on my TC24d.

Overall I'm favorably impressed. I'd say the odds of buying this tractor are 60% in favor, 40% opposed.
 

Melensdad

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New Holland 2035 w/loader $27,135
Bobcat CT235 w/loader $21,921

Those are list prices of the two tractors I'm looking at buying. The New Holland is laid out much better in terms of ergonomics, the Bobcat, by comparison appears to be a much older design. Both will provide the same functions, do the same jobs. The New Holland is easier to operate and overall I believe will be the more comfortable machine to operate for long hours.

But here is the rub, that Bobcat price actually comes down another couple thousand dollars below the list price because of the free loader. New Holland is offering free financing, but I'm not planning to finance.

If I was a commercial buyer who owned a landscaping company or any sort of operation where seat time on the tractor would be 15+ hours a week then I'd buy the New Holland. Honestly I think that layout and placement of the controls of the New Holland is superior enough that for a user who requires a lot of seat time, the New Holland will actually be faster to operate and would save a commercial user time, which in the long run, would save money.

However, as a homeowner, I can't justify the huge price difference.
 

Doc

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My Kubota 4wd lever is behind my left foot. Eyes must come off your work to switch the lever. I've never found that to be a problem though. But ... I run in 4wd the majority of the time, only switching to 2wd when I'm trying to save the yard.

Ergonomics are important, and at some point resell value will be. I'd guess the NH will hold it's value better so that if / when you sell it you'll recoup that few thousand extra you have to spend up front to take NH home. I know it's easy to spend someone else s money ..... I think I'd go with the NH.

Good luck on your decision, and please post pics when you get a chance.
 

Doc

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With that kind of difference I'd probably go with the bobcat also.

Have you haggled with the NH dealer to get that price as low as possible already?
 

Melensdad

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There is a price difference between the two on list prices, and both dealers will deal down. So the 'spread' pretty much remains the same. Then there are incentives offered by the manufacturers, and that is where Bobcat brings over $3000 to the table that NH doesn't.

I'll openly admit that NH is the better designed tractor for doing a lot of work. There is no question in my mind about that fact. NH is the better tractor if you live in the seat of the tractor and need to make it do what you want. The controls fall perfectly under your hands, they are color coded, some are even shaped differently so you can tell just by feel what you are grabbing, no need to even look down at the controls. For speed of work, ease of working, ergonomics on the NH are vastly superior. I get all that.

But I don't live in my tractor seat. And that is a whole lot of money.

I have really come to appreciate my little New Holland, it has PROVED TO ME that is really was a very wise choice the last time around when I moved to a smaller tractor but wanted to keep large lift capacities. I know that because this search for a larger machine has required me to really find a machine that would offer real advantages and most of the larger machines only offered very marginal, if any, improvements in capacity. Some actually had less capacity despite being on larger frames and with more horsepower.

So here I sit, knowing darn well that the New Holland is really the better tractor. I have a prime example of that sitting on my front lawn right now in my current New Holland. This is NOT a 'brand loyalty' thing because I'm the last guy in the world to be loyal to a brand. I'm loyal to quality and specs.

And so I look at the Bobcat and I see some excellent specs, specs that, by anyone's measure are a statistical dead heat with the NH 2030 and 2035 specs. The engine sounds good, the loader control valve was a bit quick to jerk up the bucket but that was probably because I was unused to it and it would likely mellow under my hand with practice. 3pt was smooth and powerful in lifting. Mechanically it had lots of nice features that are homeowner friendly (easy to get to filters, fill points, dipsticks). I didn't like that I had to lift the loader arms, raise the hood, and flip down a side panel to clean the radiator filter screen. But most things were easy to access. The controls are not in the right place, they are just a bit too far back, even with the seat all the way to the rear, the control levers were a bit too far back. The fit and finish of the Bobcat was not as nice as the New Holland, the Cub Yanmar or the Kubotas that I looked at but it was pretty darn good and better than anything that was on the market 5 or 6 years ago. So every quality tractor brand has improved in that regard. The Bobcat lacks some detail points that NH excels upon, but those are really more cosmetic than anything else so they clearly are not disqualifiering points.

And I guess that is my problem, I see a tractor that is "darn good" and clearly it is "more than good enough" but it is not "as good" as the other brands in many little ways. But it is a whole lot cheaper, especially with current incentives, and its a pretty nice machine as it is. So I am leaning toward buying it.

Not sure if I can get him to throw in a free hat.
 
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