off-brand attachments

I'm in the market to buy my first tractor in the next couple of months. The question I have, though, is, can I buy a Kubota L3240 tractor and then buy a Woods (for example) front end loader for that tractor and save any money? I've done a little research on the Kubota's bucket capabilities simply by looking at their brochures and I've looked at the Woods company website to get information on the Woods' buckets' capabilities, but I can't figure out from the website which Woods buckets fit which tractors. (They do say they have colors to match all the major brands' colors.) I also don't know how Woods determines things like breakout power, lift capacity to full height, etc. It seems that those things would be determined more by the physical attributes of the tractor than the manufacturers of the buckets. Mostly, though, I was just wondering if Woods might make a better bucket than Kubota sells for the same or less money, or if pallet forks could be bought for less money elsewhere, etc.

Jerry in Texas

jarbill said:

I'm in the market to buy my first tractor in the next couple of months. The question I have, though, is, can I buy a Kubota L3240 tractor and then buy a Woods (for example) front end loader for that tractor and save any money? I've done a little research on the Kubota's bucket capabilities simply by looking at their brochures and I've looked at the Woods company website to get information on the Woods' buckets' capabilities, but I can't figure out from the website which Woods buckets fit which tractors. (They do say they have colors to match all the major brands' colors.) I also don't know how Woods determines things like breakout power, lift capacity to full height, etc. It seems that those things would be determined more by the physical attributes of the tractor than the manufacturers of the buckets. Mostly, though, I was just wondering if Woods might make a better bucket than Kubota sells for the same or less money, or if pallet forks could be bought for less money elsewhere, etc.

Jerry in Texas

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Hi Jerry - Few people would describe Woods as an "off-brand" attachment... but I think we get your meaning. Woods makes fine equipment in the tractor-matching color of your choice... and if you prefer a Woods loader on your new Kubota, I'm sure that would make for a very fine arrangement. On the other hand, you may find that the economic reality is that a Kubota sitting there with a Kubota loader already on it is gonna cost you less than if you tell the dealer to take it off and replace it with a Woods. In other words, they are both gonna be excellent pieces of equipment that will last and give good service for many years... but only your local Kubota dealer can tell you which one is gonna cost you less.

Either way, I think you're gonna come out fine... but the money is gonna depend on local dealer costs and related factors that you'll just have to find out for yourself.

Dougster

I see a lot of tractors including Kubotas with Woods loaders. I have several Woods implements and they are great but I don't have any experience with their loaders.

There is another thread here about Kubota loaders and Kubotas quick attach system. It would be much better to buy the loader with a skid steer quick attach system rather than the Kubota. That allows you to use a wide variety of buckets and accessories.

Jim

About the "off-brand attachments" wording, that was a bad choice of words. What I meant was something other than the Kubota brand, (or Massey-Ferguson or any other brand, for that matter). I just didn't know if they could be ordered after-the-fact from the manufacturers or, if they could, whether it would even be feasible. If I had to order it from the dealer, I probably wouldn't do that. I'd rather keep a good relationship with the dealer as much as I could.

BTW, the Kubota I was looking at had the skid steer quick connect levers that you just flip and back out from the bucket, so it will accommodate other attachments, too. That brings me to the same question about pallet forks. Are there other brands of pallet forks or bale spears that will work with the skid steer quick connect on the Kubota that would be less expensive than what Kubota would sell at their dealerships?

Thanks in advance for your input.

Jerry in Texas

It depends on what brand of attachment your dealer handles.

Once you have the skid steer quick connect there are a lot of brands and items that will fit. Look at one of Doc's advertisers, Markham Welding for some great products.

Jim

WARNING
be very sure that the kubota QUICK ATTACH or Q/A that you are looking at is not kubota implement specific. I have a b3030 with the kubota Q/A system and it only fits a couple of kubota buckets and a set of pallet forks. If I was to do it over again I would not pay the extra bank for the Q/A system and buy a universal skid steer type system and then the implements to mount to the front are only limited by your wallet. I think !!! that woods has such a set up and that right there would be the deal maker for me. There are so many things that hook up to a skid steer at a huge variety in price thats its definatly the way to go in my book. The kubota only systems is a joke !!!!!

I have a new Kubota M7040 with the skid-ster Q-A FEL, & bought a root-rake with grapple built by a local shop that makes them on-site. They are made to the skid-ster specs (measurements) and a LOTS heaver than I could have bought from the dealer. And at about the same price. This shop will cousom make them to any specs you need. Some times you need heaver than your tractor dealer carries. (I did.) Check with local equipment operators & welding shops for attachments. (Just another idea to think about.)

I wish I had the skid steer options but I did good to just get the FEL with my tractor.
I actually considered adding the FEL later and just buying the tractor and a few other 3PH implements. Wiser heads prevailed and told me of the FEL advantages.
As for off brand FEL's you need to be sure that the hydraulic flow is correct for whatever FEL you put on. I think the manufacturer is best at this, and I'm glad I got a Kubota FEL instead of something else. Plus when you buy it with your original purchase you should save. I think it saved me around $800 getting it up front with the tractor instead of going back later and adding it.

I have heard stories about possible warranty issues when you add an aftermarket loader. I think if you are buying new I would go with the OEM loader just to be on the safe side.
The OEM loaders seem to have enough power to lift the rear end of the tractor, so any more capacity isnt going to help, and also you'd assume they have matched the loaders capacity to the strength of the front axle and frame.

Jarbill,

Is cost the driving motivation or quality? Or somwhere in between? Westendorf makes awesome loaders that can be "performance matched" with what your tractor can handle, but who is putting it on? If it is you, then go for it if you have to have the best. Quickie, Hardy, Woods etc make decent loaders also, but I can bet your dealer will only want to install stuff they sell. They may stick something on you had shipped in but I bet it will cost you plenty and Mith is right that it is possible to overload your tractor with an upgraded loader. Big bad mcButted loaders that can lift 4 tons 14 feet high probably can be made to fit a 32 horse tractor, but after you flipped it over or cracked you frontaxle in half you might wish you did something else.

My machine had has a kubota loader on it and a neighbor also has a kubota 10 years newer from the same dealer that has a woods loader on it the dealer installed...they told him it was cheaper to do it that way or it was stronger or somthing (or was it the profit margin higher?) regardless, on both when you wiggle the joystick the loader does what you want it to. It is not hard to switch from one machine to the other.

If it were me, I would talk to the dealers around you and tell them what you are looking at from others and make them offer you the sweetest deal. The good news is there isn't much crap in the CUT market. Regardless of name, They are all made in Asia to high standards.

If $$$ is the main motivation look at Jinma, but you will probably have to do all the service yourself or find a reliable independent guy(which around here aint so easy). If you like being able to have your oil changed for you, then a solid local dealer service department is key.

I would say make it easy on yourself. One machine/loader might be a LITTLE smoother or easier to operate, but since you aren't looking to run it 24-7, I would let ecomomics and convinience drive my decision. YOu will quickly get used to what ever you end up with.

Oh about QA atachments...This summer I watched a guy knock his QA bucket off several times while I was eating ice cream with my daughters and one of them (4 yrs old) told him "Pappas orange tractor doesn't do that"

That guy didn't look happy and I bring this up because why do you need a Q/A bazzilion attachment potential?

If you can get get a skid steer QA as part of a deal that is one thing, but I have one bucket solidly bolted to my machine and am completly happy with it. I made some forks for moving beams and logs (which also does a good job on brush piles, rocks and manure) and a snowplow that quickly snap in and out(see homemade implements for more if interested). Yes I do have to get off the tractor to do this, but I'm not in the bussiness and don't do this very often and I am quite content with it on my 24 acres.

shinnlinger said:

Oh about QA atachments...This summer I watched a guy knock his QA bucket off several times while I was eating ice cream with my daughters and one of them (4 yrs old) told him "Pappas orange tractor doesn't do that"

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If a skid steer style QA latch's and pins are properly set up you WILL NOT knock the bucket off.
I have the QA on my loader. When the machine was new I could easily knock the bucket off. I adjusted the pins and added a few shims to the springs. After the adjustments I couldn't knock the bucket off no matter how hard I try.

True,

This tractor happened to be a brand new Massey and I am sure there are many many many many QA attachments that stay where they should(of course probably many many that don't either)

My main point though is why does a person who is only using it on 10+ acres need to spend the extra $$$$ for one? (How much extra are we talking anyyway?) Do they really see needing a barn full of expensive implements for a Q A system? I mean that is the hidden extra cost of one of these deals, the system is only as good as all the extra stuff you have to buy later. If you only need a specific attachment once in a while will it kill you to use a rachet and wrench to change somthing?

PLanning for the future is one thing, but if it thousands extra for one and all they only see using is a pallet fork once in a while, they may be better off sticking with a bucket and using one of the three varieties oulined in the homemade impllement section.

COst would be the deciding factor for me. If one dealership was throwing in the system for little to no exttra to get your bussiness I wouldn't avoid it, but I wouldn't mope around the house wishing you had it if you don't end up with it.

shinnlinger said:

Oh about QA atachments...This summer I watched a guy knock his QA bucket off several times while I was eating ice cream with my daughters and one of them (4 yrs old) told him "Pappas orange tractor doesn't do that" That guy didn't look happy...

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If the tractor was red, I think that guy might have been me!

DK35vince said:

If a skid steer style QA latch's and pins are properly set up you WILL NOT knock the bucket off. I have the QA on my loader. When the machine was new I could easily knock the bucket off. I adjusted the pins and added a few shims to the springs. After the adjustments I couldn't knock the bucket off no matter how hard I try.

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More or less correct. With a series of critical parts replacements and a number of... ahem... "adjustments" to those parts, my bucket dropping problem has been reduced by at least 90%... and maybe completely (early work next spring will confirm for sure!)

shinnlinger said:

My main point though is why does a person who is only using it on 10+ acres need to spend the extra $$$$ for one? (How much extra are we talking anyyway?) Do they really see needing a barn full of expensive implements for a Q A system? I mean that is the hidden extra cost of one of these deals, the system is only as good as all the extra stuff you have to buy later. If you only need a specific attachment once in a while will it kill you to use a rachet and wrench to change somthing?

PLanning for the future is one thing, but if it thousands extra for one and all they only see using is a pallet fork once in a while, they may be better off sticking with a bucket and using one of the three varieties oulined in the homemade impllement section.

COst would be the deciding factor for me. If one dealership was throwing in the system for little to no exttra to get your bussiness I wouldn't avoid it, but I wouldn't mope around the house wishing you had it if you don't end up with it.

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Now you know that I have the highest respect for members of the New England delegation... and, in particular, the "Live Free or Die" state delegates... but I must respectfully offer an alternative opinion.

The fact is that I could not get by without skid steer universal quick attach ("SSUQA") if I wanted to. I currently own a total of 4 buckets (72" LD, 78" HD, 66" toothed digging and stump) plus a 66" FEL grapple. I plan to buy a set of Bradco pallet folks and build, buy or rent a fencepost/small tree puller by next spring. On top of that, the ability to rent and use practically any other skid steer attachment (of dozens locally, if not hundreds overall) is priceless. I would never even consider buying an FEL without SSUQA unless I was convinced that an OEM replacement or aftermarket tool carrier could be immediately refitted.

There is no question that aggie tractor SSUQA tool carriers are not as robust and heavy-duty as actual skid steer-mounted tool carriers. That does create some fit and functional problems with some attachments. The lack of high-flow hydraulics on most of our tractors is also a limitation in some powered rental equipment cases. The need for careful adjustment and replacement of defective or damaged parts is definitely an issue. But taking all of this into consideration, in my opinion, an FEL with SSUQA is still a huge plus in all but the most narrowly-defined and limited-use circumstances.

Dougster

shinnlinger said:

My main point though is why does a person who is only using it on 10+ acres need to spend the extra $$$$ for one? (How much extra are we talking anyyway?) Do they really see needing a barn full of expensive implements for a Q A system? I mean that is the hidden extra cost of one of these deals, the system is only as good as all the extra stuff you have to buy later. If you only need a specific attachment once in a while will it kill you to use a rachet and wrench to change somthing?

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Point taken..
I agree the average homeowner (including myself) can get by just fine without a loader QA.
When I purchased my machine the QA and heavy duty bucket was a $500 option. I planned on keeping this tractor for a very long time and didn't want to be kicking myself later on not having it.
I switch attachments often enough from the bucket to the snow plow to pallet forks that I'm glad I spend the extra $$ to have it.

It all depends on what you plan to use your tractor for. I just have the FEL, and like I said, I felt lucky to be able to get that when I got the tractor. I've since added clamp on forks and a clamp on trailer hitch. Both add to the functionality of the FEL. But, I'm the first to admit a quick attach set up would give even more functionality. For me it usually comes down to the dollars. Then you have to decide how many dollars to put into tractor size and HP, and how many into the implements.

Dougster,

You are one of the few around here who you uses your tractor to make $$$ and there I can see why a qa would be essential. Time is $$$ and having the right tool for the job is very important, but that is not what gentlemen farming is all about.

If farming or construction was my lively hood than I would need to work faster to stay competitive, but as it is I can get by not being the most efficient because it really doen't matter if the manure pile gets moved today or tommorow

DK35,

$500 is only the start, to make it worth while another $600 for pallet forks is in the works and I bet different buckets go for 3X that but I dont really know. Also alot of the nifty skidsteer atachments are hydraulic as Dougster mentioned, and without a PTO pump setup they aint gonna do you any good even if you happen to have an outfit near you who will rent you attchments. Even then, they are designed so you can see what you are doing, not sitting way back in a tractor seat.

BUt I will concede, If it is only $500 more than I have to say get one, making sure it is universal and not brand specific as prevoisly mentioned in this thread. What is another months payment in a $20,000 purchase anyway?

Doc,

What do you wish you could do that you can't with your current setup?

They say "you get what you pay for". Well, I'm not so sure about that. You won't get "it" unless you pay for it, but by the same token, you don't ALWAYS get the quality you expect just because you pay a premium price.

I try to stick with better brands with a reputation of quality. With-in that brand, I try to end up with MODELS that have the reputation. In many cases, initial purchase price won't be the bottom line when that item has reached the end of its service life. I can think of dozens of instances where I've paid more initially and ended up with a "cheap" item before things were over. And I can think of several "bargains" that ended up not being such a bargain when all the repair bills were totalled. In the end, I just don't like "cheap tools". They may work 99.9% of the time, but if I destroy it on that .01% use, how much have I saved?

So, I'd say price is a consideration but not the "make or break" final decision when I buy an implement. A bargain isn't such a bargain if it's of questionable quality.

Now, consider the fact that just about every "color" sells implements made by someone else. Loaders included. (as an example, I've been told many of Deere's loaders are built by Bush Hog)

Short line brands specialize. Full line brands cover all the bases. In SOME cases, those short liners can produce a limited array of items of quality items.......Or....... they may be the SAME components as the Full liner sells.

Long story short, I don't see any absolutes. It's a case by case, product by product, person by person decision.

shinnlinger said:

Doc,

What do you wish you could do that you can't with your current setup?

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Good question. I have to admit that I've been able to get everything done and know of nothing a quick attach set up offer other than ease of switching attachments, and more weight capacity for the forks.
So I get by. But I bet if someone bragged about what all they can do with various quick attach attachments I'd find something to go, man, I wish I could do that.
Since I don't have quick attach I don't even know of all the possible attachments available.

shinnlinger said:

Dougster, You are one of the few around here who you uses your tractor to make $$$ and there I can see why a qa would be essential. Time is $$$ and having the right tool for the job is very important, but that is not what gentlemen farming is all about. If farming or construction was my lively hood than I would need to work faster to stay competitive, but as it is I can get by not being the most efficient because it really doen't matter if the manure pile gets moved today or tommorow.

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I am not normally under severe time pressure when working. If I were, I'd probably go back to working in my old office jail cell and make 20-30 times as much money for the same (high) level of stress. On the other hand, I couldn't take an hour to switch FEL attachments or my clients would probably get awfully mad at me.

But let me come at this topic from a different angle and ask you the question: Would you ever buy a tractor on which the 3-point hitch and/or PTO shaft were proprietary and unique to that particular tractor brand and series machine?

I'll bet you a cup of Starbucks Coffee that the answer is no!

Dougster

(p.s., Thanks Ted!)

Dougster said:

I'll bet you a cup of Starbucks

Coffee that the answer is no!

Dougster

(p.s., Thanks Ted!)

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You're welcome. I see you aren't one to waste time.

Other Starbuckeroos are probably looking for that smilie. If they're sharp they'll find it, but not in the smilie list.

Where there is a will, there is a way.

Ted