RTV/Chain Harrow for Soil Prep

D&D Farm

D&D Farm

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Hey guys...........I have a pasture that is on a slope of 15 to 20 degrees with established fescue that is one of my pastures for my goats. It has taken me 8 years of seeding to get it established and end the erosion........NOW.......The USDA is providing some funding for Lespedeza seed and sowing of it.

It has taken two years on a waiting list to get the seed, AU Grazer, developed by Auburn University, that is specifically for hay/pasture for Goats and sheep. Not only is it great protein; but works on parasite control in the gut........AND....It's HIGH dollar. $100 for 50 pounds with 25 pounds per acre. It is a tiny seed that one sows like bermuda: in the beginning of the warmer months with adequate rain or irrigation. It is very drought resistant, loves acid soil, germinates easily, can be broadcast, drilled, or scattered by hand.

I only have 2 acres in this particular pasture that I am concered with and again, this pasture is on a steep slope making it difficult to get a large tractor for drilling and cultivating. I have had a couple of local guys who hay, row crop, and maintain pastures if they could do it; but they don't want any part of the slope. On a regular basis I use my Kubota B7610. 29 HP, to bush hog it a couple times a year and attach my Land Pride 48" mower in the fall to mulch up the leaves from the surrounding forest. YES I go up and down the slope on the tractor; but on a regular basis I go across the slope, SLOWLY>>>>on my RTV. I can use the RTV for the chain harrow as it just hooks over a hitch ball with a chain.

My USDA agent is trying to find me a "no till seed drill" but isn't hopeful. I need to get the job done, so the guys down at the feed store have a chain harrow that I can rent and use to drag several times over the pasture to hopefully tear up the soil.......The fescue is NOT dense but is pretty thick and perhaps grazed to 8" to 10"...........

The question:
Do you think or have experience using a chain harrow to drag in order to prepare the soil for planting???????. I don't need to go deep; but just deep enough to open the soil up for the lespedeza to come in contact with the soil............Or do I just go ahead and sow the seed heavy...LOTS OF $$$$.... and hope for the best?????

Thanks for the thoughts.........God bless........Dennis
 
I would think a chain harrow would work. It may rip up some of your fescue.

Do you have any chain link fence laying around? If so, dragging that around with a few cinder blocks sitting on it may work as well and won't rip up your fescue as much.

25 pounds/acre? That's not much. Grass seed for that same size is probably 200 pounds or more and costs about the same per pound.
 
I use a an 8'X8" I beam with a hole cut in to put a chain and drag. I use this with and without chain link to drag my road if it just needs touchin up rather than put on a blade or box scraper. When it gets into grassy areas at an edge sometimes it plugs up REAL fast.

This is a pic/link to of the type of chain harrow I can get:

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt...harrow&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-900

The USDA will pay me to put in a legume on my pastures with Lespedeza being the BEST choice for me. I actually plan on using 50 lbs per acre which is more than their 25 lb per acre recommendation. That comes from the folks who came up with the stuff for Auburn Univ, and grow the seed for sale........IT IS GOOOOOD STUFF.

http://simsbrothers.com/index.htm

Perhaps one uses so little per acre is that it has a good germination rate and is a tiny/tiny seed. Smaller a bit than even bermuda.

Thanks for the thoughts BUD..........God bless.........Dennis
 
Fescue, if it is thick is very tough. I am not sure if a chain harrow will do it or not. I have tried it before and had to disk it first. Then the chain harrow worked well. That said, Going over it with a chain harrow is better than nothing at all. As expensive as lespedeza seed is, you need all the advantage you can get.
 
Dennis, I know nothing about goats, but a little about seeding. Can you over graze the area to reduce the forage height to about 3 inches? The 8" of forage will provide too much shading. Next, can you confine the goats in a small area for about 12 hours to "trod" the seed in contact with the soil? The key is a lots of hooves in a small area.

I've planted clover many different ways. The most successful was first grazing the forage to a low height, followed by distributing the seed with a small electric spreader mounted on the front of a 4-wheeler or RTV, then turn the cows in to further graze and trod the seed down for soil contact. The small seed doesn't have to be buried by the seed.

I think the chain harrow would work, but I also think it is unnecessary when you have four legged planters at your disposal.

I've found that drilling small seed to normally lead to placing the seed too deep.

Philip
www.rehmangus.com
 
imo, you need to get much shorter then 8-10 inches on your fescue to get the seed to the ground and grow. I would think it would choke it right out and never let it come up. If it rains,,,it will all go down the hill unless it is buried. I think you need to mow short,,drill the seed in,,,keep mowed until it gets up. I can't see a chain harrow doing anything but riding over the top of the fescue until it pulls enough to become a big snarl of grass.
 
We use the a Cultipackers .
Cultipackers is the only way to go with small seeds. The seeds only need
soil to seed contact. They don't need to be buried.

Most cultipackers we use is smooth. But we do have some ribbed models also. They will work ......
We have ALWAYS has great results with cultipackers.


We have used draggs, chain-link fences, harrows, etc. Nothing can even
compare to the work a cutipacker can do for seeding .....

Germination is perfect !!!


There are many cutipackers that are made out of big pipe. They also sell them where you can put water into the "jug" to make it heavier ....

Here is some pics I picked up on the web ....
 

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Completely agree with two guns. Seed to soil contact is the most important part to good germination. I have an old brillion double cultipacker I pull with the rtv.
 
I have used a small disc turned so it is running the discs almost in a straight line to knife the soil and just broadcast the seed with a hand crank seeder. Got real good results with the clover and orchard grass mix I planted. A cultipacker would be great to go back over it or even a heavy lawn roller will work.
 
Thanks for the thoughts GUYS.........Guess I will mull over the suggestions for a couple of days to figure out what to do. Havent heard from my USDA agent fella about getting a no-till-drill so am gonna procede on with what happens......See you in a few days about this......God bless.....Dennis
 
Most of those no till drills require a fair sized tractor to pull. May not want to get a big rig on a steep slope.
 
Gotta figure out how to rig up the bearings and attach them to a rod or pipe when I make one of those cultipackers. Really a good idea and easy to make with corrugated pipe and concrete. But again, to figure out the bearings........GOOD IDEA

Yes Muleman, the large tractors have a hard time on my hill and it is why I cant get a local row cropper to do it for me........Funny though, God has HIS hand in this so it's gonna be just fine no matter what happens. Easy to be happy by just following the path as it is laid down........THANKS BUDs.......Any easy ideas to rig the ends of the pipe or rod to hook a chain to and then up to the trailer hitch on the RTV???.........Dennis
 
D&D Farm said:
Gotta figure out how to rig up the bearings and attach them to a rod or pipe when I make one of those cultipackers. Really a good idea and easy to make with corrugated pipe and concrete. But again, to figure out the bearings........GOOD IDEA

Yes Muleman, the large tractors have a hard time on my hill and it is why I cant get a local row cropper to do it for me........Funny though, God has HIS hand in this so it's gonna be just fine no matter what happens. Easy to be happy by just following the path as it is laid down........THANKS BUDs.......Any easy ideas to rig the ends of the pipe or rod to hook a chain to and then up to the trailer hitch on the RTV???.........Dennis
Click to expand...

Hi Dennis. What about a big washer welded to the solid rod going through the concrete/culvert. one on each side at equal distance .then an adjustable, mounted pillow block bearing on each side of your homemade angle iron frame to hold the roller?. The washers would act like inner stops so it would stay put. That is just a quick pondering of my wacky brain so it might not be logical. Good Luck my friend . bordercollie
 
D&D Farm said:
Gotta figure out how to rig up the bearings
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Seen many, with "no bearing" but a collar with a grease fitting.
Many work them all day with any trouble.

Use some construction grease, really tacky and it does work.

Forgive the drawing, Not good at all doing the etchie-sketchie
thingy ..... Looks like a drunk monkey got access to a marker.:whistling:

They weld a collar thew the crossbar, run shaft threw it.

Old pipe works super.

.......... two guns
 

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Thanks guys.......One more question for thought:
The pasture that I am talking about is fescue 6" to 10" in height and not turf quality thick; but it is established and in good shape. Am not concerned with pulling it out with a chain harrow; but with the cultipacker type of device that we are talking about fabricating
.......I will broadcast the small seed, then use the cultipacker to go over the fescue/soil to kind of mash the seed into the soil. Will this process cause the fescue to become a "mat" as it is laid over and compressed into the soil along with the seed?????? Thereby smothering the seed that does contact the soil and making a layer of fescue leaves to block seed from getting to the soil????????????

Or am I just worrying about nothing???????.........Really do thank ALL for your help on this and yes Jamie, I do understand the drawing and concept it details. Am gonna go on Monday to a heavy duty, carry everything industrial supply company for parts and stuff. Sure is a good thing, I guess, that with all of this cool weather that the soil temp is still to low for the lespedeza to germinate and give me time to fabricate.......Again, THANKS......God bless......Dennis
 
D&D Farm said:
Or am I just worrying about nothing???????.........
Click to expand...


Yes sir, I think you are worrying about nothing.

Now, on the other hand. When I have a doubt.

I do a " TEST FIRE SECTION" ..... that being I will do a small area and
see results. This is not done only on just seeding, but many things in
life that I am just unsure about.
We do it with a new Herbicide, fertilizer, etc ...... that way, one knows what to expect or what adjustments needs to be done.


............. jamie
 

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Dennis, am I correct in assuming that the fescue is Kentucky 31? If so, it likely is growing in "bunches" that may prevent the culti-packer from getting much of the seed in contact with the ground. One with ridges would be much better in this application. I have a 12 foot Brillion double gang with ridged rollers, and I like it very much for the proper application.

I was speaking with quite a bit of experience about using your animals to "trod" the seed down to the soil, all without the use of fossil fuel.

Anyway you pursue planting of the legume will require a much lower height on the current forage that you have. You must get sunlight to the soil and the newly emerged forage.

Forgive me if I'm preaching to the choir. I've been involved with agriculture for 50 years and have certainly made my fair share of mistakes. Using the animals will work, probably better than any other man-made method.

Philip
www.rehmangus.com
 
Philip......One old guy to another. It's wisdom and learning from others that has kept me alive and well after all of this time. I truly do thank you for your insight and the goats are on that section of pasture and will pretty much stay on it until just after germination of the lespedeza. Not only are they fossil fuel free; but they are a ready source of the best "instant" fertilizer available.

You are right about the Kentucky 31. Yes, it grows in large clumps and that is what I was concerned with "matting" when I go over it. I am just gonna mull this over as I wait for the pasture to dry out after this current bit of rain and the soil temp to come up a bit more. lol......that gives me at least a few more days of figuring.

It seems Jamie, that the whole thing is gonna be a "test plot" and then the next year or or the next we will have the whole thing figured out and get it right. Only took me 6 years of testing what works to get the fescue to cover what was bare ground and overgrazed weed to be what it is now. A very established fescue pasture. All of this to get a crop of something even better than what it took years and so much work to get where I am now. lol.....I wouldnt even be doing this if it wasn't for those fool goats and God blessing us with some good results at shows and folks wanting our breeding stock. On and on......Thanks again Guys......God bless......Dennis
 
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