A brickie would use Muratic acid to clean off the bricks from mortar and dirt.
New project - 4WD Articulated Tractor
- Thread starter Mith
- Start date
A few more bits and bobs done. The seat mount is roughly done. Most the stuff is still tacked at this point, and obviously alot of it will have sheet metal attached.
The 2 valves to the right of the seat are for the drive bias (to send power to the wheel with the most grip).
2 of the pumps are attached, I'll attach the 3rd and then make the frame all the tensioners will mount to that tighten the belts. The pumps are mounted on plates that pivot, so with a threaded tensioner on the end of the plate I should be able to make sure the belts are really tight.
All going well I'll order a batch of hoses next week. Hey, it might even be working by the end of the month.....
The 2 valves to the right of the seat are for the drive bias (to send power to the wheel with the most grip).
2 of the pumps are attached, I'll attach the 3rd and then make the frame all the tensioners will mount to that tighten the belts. The pumps are mounted on plates that pivot, so with a threaded tensioner on the end of the plate I should be able to make sure the belts are really tight.
All going well I'll order a batch of hoses next week. Hey, it might even be working by the end of the month.....
Attachments
Thanks again Jerry. I'll try and get a decent camera organised when its working. The first time its fired up might be quite amusing too, there will probably be a few plumbing mistakes to make things interesting (front and rear wheels going opposite directions, steering reversed etc)
Something I forgot to add the previous post, a quick question on hydraulic oils. They advertise grade 32 to grade 100. I assume this is the weight of the oil, if so, any thoughts on the oil I will need. Temps here go from about 20F to 98F. Cheers.
Something I forgot to add the previous post, a quick question on hydraulic oils. They advertise grade 32 to grade 100. I assume this is the weight of the oil, if so, any thoughts on the oil I will need. Temps here go from about 20F to 98F. Cheers.
N
Nicahawk
Guest
Doc, the tyres are just designed to hold toolsI try to avoid storing anything too valuable on there though, I have a habit of forgetting and running over stuff
You wouldnt be able to take a photo of the label on a SUDT tub would you?
Mith......Was up early today so walked over to shop and snapped a couple pics for you. Not the best, but might save Doc a little time. Let me know if you need better pictures.
Attachments
N
Nicahawk
Guest
I remembered to check this morning. Those are the only numbers.
Check out Kubota's web site under Tech Service. Shows different lubricants and applications. May be of some help.
http://www.kubota.com/
Archdean
Member
Jim I believe that the Kubota Super UDT is the finest Hydraulic oil on the planet and as a user in 3 tractors you can definitely FEEL the difference!!
FYI and I recommend it beyond all others!!
Dean
http://www.messicks.com/Articles/superudt.aspx
http://www.kubota.com/F/support/greasesched.cfm
FYI and I recommend it beyond all others!!
Dean
http://www.messicks.com/Articles/superudt.aspx
http://www.kubota.com/F/support/greasesched.cfm
N
Nicahawk
Guest
Spiffy1
Member
Looking good Mith! Now turn that seat around and you'll have a PT 14 series! 
Speaking of which: my PT 2445 runs 15 gallons of oil for the 45HP diesel using only 10W40 heavy duty motor oil [not entirely uncommon in things like skid steers around here as it handles the temp range well, but I believe the big names add anti-foam agents ect to it so it acts a bit more like hydro fluid]. IMHO it's just a bit weak choice with it running everything through there: the hydo, hydraulic "PTO", steering, and FEL, but conversly, I'm more than sure you'll be fine with your 16 gallons of generic hytran in yours.
I didn't notice; are you planning a hydraulic oil cooler too? For just the wheel motors you might get away without, but I'm positive you'll need it if planning any hydraulic PTO.
Speaking of which: my PT 2445 runs 15 gallons of oil for the 45HP diesel using only 10W40 heavy duty motor oil [not entirely uncommon in things like skid steers around here as it handles the temp range well, but I believe the big names add anti-foam agents ect to it so it acts a bit more like hydro fluid]. IMHO it's just a bit weak choice with it running everything through there: the hydo, hydraulic "PTO", steering, and FEL, but conversly, I'm more than sure you'll be fine with your 16 gallons of generic hytran in yours.
I didn't notice; are you planning a hydraulic oil cooler too? For just the wheel motors you might get away without, but I'm positive you'll need it if planning any hydraulic PTO.
Cheers Spiffy.
The reason I went with hydraulic oil over motor oil is the anti-foaming. From what I saw, the motor oil handles a wider temp range than the hydraulic oil.
I don't have a hydraulic PTO, if I have enough HP I'll go ahead and make one, but add an extra tank. No cooler, hopefully it'll have enough volume to stay cool. I'm not sure how well the engine will run the wheel motors, if its easy enough I'll go ahead and make a PTO. Only issue is, because its so wide I need 6' attachments to cover the width and I dont have the HP for attachments that wide. I'd really like a sidearm flail though.
Do you have any specs on your machine? Like wheel motor size and pump sizes? Love to see a few photos of the hydraulics etc.
I got my first set of hoses the other day. Its mostly the low pressure lines. In the pic they are the suction lines for the 3 pumps. 0.75", 1" and 1.5" bore. I need to go and buy a 2" spanner for tighten the bigger hose fitting. They were some expensive hoses.....
The reason I went with hydraulic oil over motor oil is the anti-foaming. From what I saw, the motor oil handles a wider temp range than the hydraulic oil.
I don't have a hydraulic PTO, if I have enough HP I'll go ahead and make one, but add an extra tank. No cooler, hopefully it'll have enough volume to stay cool. I'm not sure how well the engine will run the wheel motors, if its easy enough I'll go ahead and make a PTO. Only issue is, because its so wide I need 6' attachments to cover the width and I dont have the HP for attachments that wide. I'd really like a sidearm flail though.
Do you have any specs on your machine? Like wheel motor size and pump sizes? Love to see a few photos of the hydraulics etc.
I got my first set of hoses the other day. Its mostly the low pressure lines. In the pic they are the suction lines for the 3 pumps. 0.75", 1" and 1.5" bore. I need to go and buy a 2" spanner for tighten the bigger hose fitting. They were some expensive hoses.....
Attachments
Spiffy1
Member
Hi Mith!
Yep, for the anti-foam ect., I think you made the right choice on the hytran oil; with additives motor oil is probably fine, but the PT runs the motor oil "as is" and while I know that it needs the temp range, I think the motor oil sacrifices a bit of efficiency.
On my 2445 (24=wheel loader style instead of 14 or 4 utility style; 45=45hp):
15GPM at 3000psi for the PTO ( I believe about 20cc/rev)
Around 5GPM for the power steering and loader (same pump chamber for those, doubled with the PTO in a separate chamber)
The wheel motors are quite similar to your White (they might even be White, I need to look), but they're driven from a variable displacement pump at 5000psi max so I'd have to reverse calculate any numbers: rough guess (assuming my math is correct too!) about 30L/min divided between 2 circuits each feeding two wheel motors in series.
I'll try to find a bit more info later.
Edit: I think the White REs were mentioned here earlier, but I don't think used.
Yep, for the anti-foam ect., I think you made the right choice on the hytran oil; with additives motor oil is probably fine, but the PT runs the motor oil "as is" and while I know that it needs the temp range, I think the motor oil sacrifices a bit of efficiency.
On my 2445 (24=wheel loader style instead of 14 or 4 utility style; 45=45hp):
15GPM at 3000psi for the PTO ( I believe about 20cc/rev)
Around 5GPM for the power steering and loader (same pump chamber for those, doubled with the PTO in a separate chamber)
The wheel motors are quite similar to your White (they might even be White, I need to look), but they're driven from a variable displacement pump at 5000psi max so I'd have to reverse calculate any numbers: rough guess (assuming my math is correct too!) about 30L/min divided between 2 circuits each feeding two wheel motors in series.
I'll try to find a bit more info later.
Edit: I think the White REs were mentioned here earlier, but I don't think used.
Spiffy1
Member
A couple more thoughts on the hydraulics:
I beat my brain on this one a while back yet can't fight the math: when putting a manual valve on the PT's PTO I thought it would be nice for variable speed; for starting, stopping, and reversing, the variable speed is great - but not constant use. However, with the constant volume pump, the valve effectively regulates pressure [as far as the pump is concerned] not volume. So what? Everything diverted is "wasted power", if 25% goes through the valve bypass and 75% to the motors the pump is still consuming 100% of that volume X the pressure [although lower pressure, so it still does prevent stalling the engine if that occurs only at full pressure]. Again so what? 2 problems: 1) more heat going into the oil than necessary [let's say the pump is 90% efficient, that 10% has to go somewhere; in the previous case only 75% of the 10% was needed; ditto with the valve itself - not so much when fully engaged or fully open] and 2) you don't really have a torque range [on a gear or variable pump, torque and speed are inversely proportional to use the power in the best ratio of torque and speed for job], mostly a speed range.
For the simplicity [not to mention $$$! for swashplate pump ] definitely worth seeing how the pump works out, but I have to play Devil's Advocate on occasion!
The other thing, are the left and right wheels for each "axel" in series, not sure if I'm reading your schematic correctly though? I think, front and rear generally are in series so the 2 tighter circle tires can turn at the same rate and ditto on the wider circle.
A quick calculation that may be of interest here [double check my math though!]:
For an engine [rather than electric motor which is often figured at twice the output per HP rating than the same rated engine] I think you figure 1L/m @ 3000psi for each HP.
Keep up the good work Mith!
I beat my brain on this one a while back yet can't fight the math: when putting a manual valve on the PT's PTO I thought it would be nice for variable speed; for starting, stopping, and reversing, the variable speed is great - but not constant use. However, with the constant volume pump, the valve effectively regulates pressure [as far as the pump is concerned] not volume. So what? Everything diverted is "wasted power", if 25% goes through the valve bypass and 75% to the motors the pump is still consuming 100% of that volume X the pressure [although lower pressure, so it still does prevent stalling the engine if that occurs only at full pressure]. Again so what? 2 problems: 1) more heat going into the oil than necessary [let's say the pump is 90% efficient, that 10% has to go somewhere; in the previous case only 75% of the 10% was needed; ditto with the valve itself - not so much when fully engaged or fully open] and 2) you don't really have a torque range [on a gear or variable pump, torque and speed are inversely proportional to use the power in the best ratio of torque and speed for job], mostly a speed range.
For the simplicity [not to mention $$$! for swashplate pump
] definitely worth seeing how the pump works out, but I have to play Devil's Advocate on occasion!The other thing, are the left and right wheels for each "axel" in series, not sure if I'm reading your schematic correctly though? I think, front and rear generally are in series so the 2 tighter circle tires can turn at the same rate and ditto on the wider circle.
A quick calculation that may be of interest here [double check my math though!]:
For an engine [rather than electric motor which is often figured at twice the output per HP rating than the same rated engine] I think you figure 1L/m @ 3000psi for each HP.
Keep up the good work Mith!