Chinese Mahindras???

[Dougster]

I keep hearing rumors and reading stories that the Chinese Mahindras are coming soon to these economically-challenged shores. The very term Chinese Mahindras strikes fear in my heart and brings up some troubling visions and emotions about my favorite tractor brand. I am also reminded of the attempt to do the same by TYM and its ultimate failure along with the confusion and bad feelings it caused.

I am further reminded of exactly why I chose to put my faith (and future) in a Mahindra tractor in the first place. I keep hoping that M-USA knows what it is doing but I fear that this move is purely low-end profit motivated and is doomed to backfire badly by changing the general perception of Mahindra from a rock-solid first class alternative to the Big 3 brands... to just another imported tractor of dubious pedigree and worth.

Please someone tell me that my fears are irrational... or, alternatively, tell me what other brand will ultimately remain 100% qualify-focused and rise to the top of the heap to take the place of Mahindra in challenging Deere, Kubota and New Holland for best value over the next 5-10 years.

Dougster

 

[civesnedfield]

Yes Dougster the roumors are true. THere has been a thread going on at that other site for several weeks now. It looks like a couple of the dealers are jumping on board and ordering a couple of these things. They are going on about grabbing the customer that just doesn't want to spend too much money. I saw one quote of a 25hp 4wd w/loader for 12k-13k. They are also saying that they have been to the plants and the quality of workmanship is better than what most would think. Take it for what it's worth, but I wouldn't touch one.

I was wondering though if you could request a lead paint test prior to purchase.

 

[civesnedfield]

Hey I just found this. THe president of Mahindra. he speaks about the Chinese operation at the end.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=L12MhVZ4gXk&feature=related

 

[Dougster]

Yes Dougster the roumors are true. THere has been a thread going on at that other site for several weeks now. It looks like a couple of the dealers are jumping on board and ordering a couple of these things. They are going on about grabbing the customer that just doesn't want to spend too much money. I saw one quote of a 25hp 4wd w/loader for 12k-13k. They are also saying that they have been to the plants and the quality of workmanship is better than what most would think. Take it for what it's worth, but I wouldn't touch one. I was wondering though if you could request a lead paint test prior to purchase.

Sadly, this extremely stupid move negates in one fell swoop ALL of the positives... in terms of reputation, performance, features, comparative specs and country of origin... that led me to choose my Mahindra in the first place. I don't get it. I simply don't get it.

Why would a brand with an excellent and growing reputation for high quality commensurate with high value suddenly bring a cut-rate Chinese tractor into its showrooms under the same brand name??? What am I not seeing here??? Is M-USA purposely out to trash the Mahindra brand name??? It would certainly seem so.

Please dear Lord... let them market any and all Chinese-made junk for the first 5 years under some other name so that I can still believe that the Mahindra brand name stands for something other than low-end-of-the-market generated profit without regard for very much else.

Dougster

 

[Dougster]

Hey I just found this. THe president of Mahindra. he speaks about the Chinese operation at the end.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=L12MhVZ4gXk&feature=related

Interesting... but he certainly didn't say much to alleviate my fears that the Chinese-made tractors will be sub-par. In fact, reading carefully between the lines of what he said, there clearly *is* a Chinese quality problem.

Dougster

 

[Bindian]

Interesting... but he certainly didn't say much to alleviate my fears that the Chinese-made tractors will be sub-par. In fact, reading carefully between the lines of what he said, there clearly *is* a Chinese quality problem.

Dougster

Dougster,
Here are two ads for them........http://www.billstractor.com/mahes25std.htm and this one...........Compact tractors - small hobby farm tractor supply

hugs, Brandi

 

[Dougster]

Dougster, Here are two ads for them........http://www.billstractor.com/mahes25std.htm and this one...........Compact tractors - small hobby farm tractor supply

hugs, Brandi

Yep... I had found them both a while back. I don't know why M-USA can't import and sell them here under the Lenar name or some other name like they do down under... just so when they crash & burn here it won't bring the Mahindra brand name (and M-USA operation) down with it.

But this is the future I guess. Kinda like the economy these days. All you can do is hang on and pray that someone somewhere knows what they are doing.

Dougster

 

[larryRB]

Doug

don't get to upset over it, hell, before you know it, they will also be sold at harbor freight and northern tool, so plenty of them will be around

 

[Dougster]

Doug
don't get to upset over it, hell, before you know it, they will also be sold at harbor freight and northern tool, so plenty of them will be around

Oh man Larry... ...my worst nightmare... having to go to HF to get parts for my Mahindra.

I pray to God that M&M and M-USA know what they are doing by adding a cheapy, unproven Chinese-made tractor to their US-imported line-up. I hope some serious thought was put into this and customer surveys were done. I also hope some competent corporate image and marketing folks were consulted as well. Sadly, I fear that none of this was done. I get the sense that M&M is forcing this el cheapo tractor down the throat of M-USA to the ultimate detriment and demise of all us current vocal and very loyal customers... currently M-USA's number one advertising and sales force.

Dougster

 

[larryRB]

I'm afraid I have to agree with you., I read from start to finish this exact thread on the other tractor net. I did not see any good points from this manuever even though from some well respected mahindra dealers ,who, tried their best to put across good points about this latest move., Having personally dealt with mahindra in Tomball Tx some years back, I will never be convinced they did the right thing,, I told them, as you know Doug, that there are many, many here in the northeast and elsewhere who are looking for a true commercial construction tlb. They told me I am wrong, never happen, they never heard of it, etc... I said to a guy on that long distance phone call, better go back to your village and return to charming cobra's in the baskets. I meant it then, and mean it now. I don't know what it is about some people from India,, they come here and tell us, we know what you need, not what you think you need. I see it daily in the local 24/7 convenience stores, so why would several key people at m and m be any different...

 

[Dougster]

I'm afraid I have to agree with you., I read from start to finish this exact thread on the other tractor net. I did not see any good points from this manuever even though from some well respected mahindra dealers ,who, tried their best to put across good points about this latest move., Having personally dealt with mahindra in Tomball Tx some years back, I will never be convinced they did the right thing,, I told them, as you know Doug, that there are many, many here in the northeast and elsewhere who are looking for a true commercial construction tlb. They told me I am wrong, never happen, they never heard of it, etc... I said to a guy on that long distance phone call, better go back to your village and return to charming cobra's in the baskets. I meant it then, and mean it now. I don't know what it is about some people from India,, they come here and tell us, we know what you need, not what you think you need. I see it daily in the local 24/7 convenience stores, so why would several key people at m and m be any different...

Well, I've said similar things before about the cultural differences and how they seem to adversely affect M-USA's ability to master the American market... albeit in less colorful terms than you have put forward. I believe this cheapy, unproven, Chinese tractor is one of those times. It is not something that will help M&M and M-USA get to where they should already be in this market.

The on-line dealers are a great bunch of folks... and no doubt they are swallowing hard and putting the best possible face on this pathetic misadventure in down-scale marketing. To me, this is like BMW trying to compete with Yugo... when the majority of Americans don't want a substantial purchase that should last them 10, 15, 25+ years to be a Yugo. I did not turn to Mahindra because they were the cheapest. I turned to Mahindra because I thought they were the best.

Dougster

 

[UncleBuck]

Oh man Larry... ...my worst nightmare... having to go to HF to get parts for my Mahindra.

I pray to God that M&M and M-USA know what they are doing by adding a cheapy, unproven Chinese-made tractor to their US-imported line-up. I hope some serious thought was put into this and customer surveys were done. I also hope some competent corporate image and marketing folks were consulted as well. Sadly, I fear that none of this was done. I get the sense that M&M is forcing this el cheapo tractor down the throat of M-USA to the ultimate detriment and demise of all us current vocal and very loyal customers... currently M-USA's number one advertising and sales force.

Dougster

Dougster
too much caffeine, life is too short too be that worried about tractors/MahindraUSA ,according to the dealers on another forum, this tractor has been reworked for the past couple of years before coming to the U.S. Besides, I was a little surprised when I bought my 4110 and found out my "India" tractor was made in "Korea" by TYM. Since then, this Tractor has never disappointed me and has surprised me numerous times with what it can do,(finally found time to clean up the four foot lake effect snow fall from Monday). If you sit on a piece of junk buyers will not buy and that will be the end of this little experiment. To me the bigger surprise/mistake would be for Mahindra to stop selling the 10 series tractors
Also, it looks like the Big Boy on the block might be positioning for a similar
move
http://farmindustrynews.com/farm-equipment/deere-expands-china/
.
http://www.deere.com/en_US/newsroom/2007/releases/corporate/2007_0607release.html

 

[Dougster]

Dougster
too much caffeine, life is too short too be that worried about tractors/MahindraUSA...

Well, I have Brian, Brandi, Jay and Paul to thank for my current caffeine level. Not much I can do about that except try some Starbucks de-caf maybe!

...according to the dealers on another forum, this tractor has been reworked for the past couple of years before coming to the U.S.

I have no problem with M&M (China) building and experimenting with a cheap Chinese-built tractor for China and other developing countries. Call me an ugly American maybe... but let them experiment with the dang things somewhere else in the world (and, ideally, under another brand name) before bringing it here to these shores and degrading the Mahindra name in our demanding and most profitable marketplace with unproven Chinese junk.

Besides, I was a little surprised when I bought my 4110 and found out my "India" tractor was made in "Korea" by TYM. Since then, this Tractor has never disappointed me and has surprised me numerous times with what it can do,(finally found time to clean up the four foot lake effect snow fall from Monday).

Now Buck, you and I both know that there is a world of difference between a proven, high-quality South Korean-made tractor fitted with American components, American tires, an American loader and an American backhoe... and a 100% Chinese-made tractor designed specifically to compete at the low end of our market. I knew that my 4110 was made for Mahindra by TYM, KMW and Bradco when I bought... and was very happy about that fact.

If you sit on a piece of junk buyers will not buy and that will be the end of this little experiment.

Kinda like the TYM China experiment I hope. Over and done with fast! Damage minimized!

To me the bigger surprise/mistake would be for Mahindra to stop selling the 10 series tractors

I think that is more of a forced business decision than anything else. TYM has proven itself and wants a piece of the American market without a middleman. Whether it can effectively do it or not is another matter. Already we have seen some very bad decision making and less than impressive dealers and sales.

Also, it looks like the Big Boy on the block might be positioning for a similar move
http://farmindustrynews.com/farm-equipment/deere-expands-china/
.
http://www.deere.com/en_US/newsroom/2007/releases/corporate/2007_0607release.html

Yes, but please take note that Deere is reportedly buying and building tractor factories in China to serve the Chinese market (at least initially).. not to immediately import them into the USA to flood us with cheap, unproven, junk machines. I'd be just as disappointed in Deere if they tried to pull that off.

And I admit it: After my unfortunate fiasco with a Chinese-made wood chipper that turned out to be total, unusable, unsafe crap, I may be the last person standing who will refuse to ever buy a Chinese-made tractor.

Dougster

 

[UncleBuck]

Yes, but please take note that Deere is reportedly buying and building tractor factories in China to serve the Chinese market (at least initially).. not to immediately import them into the USA to flood us with cheap, unproven, junk machines. I'd be just as disappointed in Deere if they tried to pull that off.

And I admit it: After my unfortunate fiasco with a Chinese-made wood chipper that turned out to be total, unusable, unsafe crap, I may be the last person standing who will refuse to ever buy a Chinese-made tractor.

Dougster

Those are press releases from corporate Deere, do you think that they would admit their future intentions, knowing deere, I don't think they would release their intentions years ahead, I know of a dealer that absolutely refuses to admit to this day the association with Yanmar & Deere
Years ago when I was looking to buy, I found out a lot about brand and where they were actually made. What a surprise (France,Italy,Romania,Korea, Japan)
I also looked at Chinese Tractors.( the "dealer" I test drove a Dong Feng tractor is no longer in business) , needless to say Mahindra won.
IMO, If Mahindra brings up the Quality of the chinese tractor than they made a good move by simply beating the other big name tractor companies to China. if not they could kiss the US market share they worked hard to build GOODBYE if they insist on selling junk. I'm old enough to remember the first imports from Japan, they were garbage, but now the quality of their imports are now high, and in some cases far superior, don't know if in my lifetime China will reach that level, but it seems its starting all over again.
Good or Bad , its out of my hands, Its all part of the GLOBAL ECONOMY.

 

[mobilus]

I saw one quote of a 25hp 4wd w/loader for 12k-13k.

I just don't uderstand that...for that much money, you can go ORANGE!

 

[Dougster]

Those are press releases from corporate Deere, do you think that they would admit their future intentions, knowing deere, I don't think they would release their intentions years ahead, I know of a dealer that absolutely refuses to admit to this day the association with Yanmar & Deere. Years ago when I was looking to buy, I found out a lot about brand and where they were actually made. What a surprise (France,Italy,Romania,Korea, Japan)

Oh man Buck! You sure are cynical! I'm shocked, shocked that you would think a corporate press release might not tell the whole story (including all about future intentions)!

The odd thing is that I think Deere is actually telling the truth here... at least about their initial intentions to concentrate on supplying a Chinese-built machine to the Chinese market first... perhaps along with other developing countries as time goes on. They have way too much to lose by prematurely bringing an unproven, all-Chinese, el cheapo tractor into the American marketplace. The last thing they've got is their heritage and rock solid reputation in the American market. Why on earth would they risk that for a few new low-end sales?

I also looked at Chinese Tractors.( the "dealer" I test drove a Dong Feng tractor is no longer in business) , needless to say Mahindra won. IMO, If Mahindra brings up the Quality of the chinese tractor than they made a good move by simply beating the other big name tractor companies to China. if not they could kiss the US market share they worked hard to build GOODBYE if they insist on selling junk.

And I am not saying that M&M shouldn't be looking hard at China. All I am saying is that they should be very cautious about bringing an unproven, all-Chinese machine into the American market under the Mahindra banner. Seems they are risking their hard-won reputation here on a potentially dubious low-end machine. Why not bring it in under a different brand name at first to play it safe and not risk ruining their good reputation and ever growing sales of their premium market machines?

I'm old enough to remember the first imports from Japan, they were garbage, but now the quality of their imports are now high, and in some cases far superior, don't know if in my lifetime China will reach that level, but it seems its starting all over again. Good or Bad , its out of my hands, Its all part of the GLOBAL ECONOMY.

It's awfully strange to me. You would think that an India-based giant like M&M would be able to compete head-to-head with any labor costs and tractor coming out of China these days. Seems to me that M&M's move into China should be for Chinese market share... not born out of a need to supply the American market with an even cheaper, unproven, low-end machine.

Dougster

 

[shinnlinger]

Now Now Dougie settle down,

Alot of supposedly AMerican tools(and other things) have been made in china for some time now. DeWalt, Delta, Porter Cable, etc with minumal ill effects due to the fact that those companies CHOOSE to maintian decent quality control. Now this is a decision Mahindra has to make. Maintain quality or let is slide and suffer. They probably know this.

In Mahindra's praise, they made a good product in INDIA which by most standards is not even with China in production of quality goods. If they can do it there, they can do it in China. IF they want to.

What are you worried about anyways, you already have your good old made in INDIA model. Take care of it will take care of you.

 

[Dougster]

Now Now Dougie settle down,

Alot of supposedly AMerican tools(and other things) have been made in china for some time now. DeWalt, Delta, Porter Cable, etc with minumal ill effects due to the fact that those companies CHOOSE to maintian decent quality control. Now this is a decision Mahindra has to make. Maintain quality or let is slide and suffer. They probably know this.

In Mahindra's praise, they made a good product in INDIA which by most standards is not even with China in production of quality goods. If they can do it there, they can do it in China. IF they want to.

What are you worried about anyways, you already have your good old made in INDIA model. Take care of it will take care of you.

Now, now Shinnster!

You are correct about those power tools. Fact is that I just picked-up a new American name-brand circular saw this afternoon (to replace the one that I "loaned" to a client last digging season)... and sure nuf': Made in China. It is a disease... an American sickness.

And let me clarify that my Mahindra 4110/ML112/509 is made in South Korea (by TYM) and the good old USA (by KMW and Bradco). But I would have zero hesitation about buying an Indian-made Mahindra. In fact, my very favorite Mahindra, the magnificent 7520, is made in India but also fitted with an American FEL and BH. I will respectfully disagree with your assertion that Mahindra's India production is sub-par to what is or could be built in China. I will take an Indian-made tractor over a Chinese tractor any day of the week. I also prefer Indian food to Chinese food... but that's a whole 'nother story!

There are some rather personal reasons that I feel a little betrayed and overly-disappointed in M&M and M-USA's new downscale direction for the American market... but I don't feel comfortable posting them on-line. And you are right on another point: I already have my own high-quality Mahindra AND there is absolutely nothing stopping me from choosing another tractor brand the next time around.

Dougster

 

[Mith]

I believe John Deere use alot of Chinese manufacture for their machines, it doesnt seem to have harmed them, maybe even the opposite.
Maybe Mahindra are following suit?

 

[Dougster]

I believe John Deere use alot of Chinese manufacture for their machines, it doesnt seem to have harmed them, maybe even the opposite.
Maybe Mahindra are following suit?

I am certainly not going to defend John Deere's use of Chinese parts in some of their expensive new tractors (and maybe some old ones too... dunno). That is a key reason I didn't buy a new Deere that I went to see up in the "Live Free or Die" state (although I am still a semi-loyal fan of the infamous JD 110).

But there is a big difference between using a handful of Chinese parts and sourcing a new, unproven, untested tractor entirely from China and bringing it into the American market under the Mahindra banner.

Again, I am not against China building a new low-end tractor for M&M. I am against it being brought into this country and marketed as a Mahindra when by all indications we are talking about an inferior, unproven, low-end machine that could sink Mahindra's reputation into the mire of poorly supported 3rd and 4th rate brands.

Dougster