Ping Milwaukee -- Gilson YT11HE

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xPosTech

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Dan

I just got a Gilson YT11HE. I know you are at least familiar with them. I can fine no info on them. Perhaps I'm not searching with the right terms? Any help you can throw my way will be received with open arms.

It has an L head Briggs 12.5 hp I/C. I suspect this is not original. The steering rod to the left front wheel rubs on the left rear of the engine block. When the (38") deck is raised for transport the belt is at an extreme angle; the engine pulley may be incorrect for this engine, or the belt is too short. The mower blades will not disengage.

The PO bought it used, and had no documentation. If the pic I try to post makes it to the server, it is of the model # sticker -- the steering rod rubbing on the engine is visible at lower left. There is quite a bit of the oil pan boss worn away. I can take more pics when the mower is out of the sun (it's still on my trailer).

Model.jpg


My main question I guess is do you think this tractor originally had a 12.5 Briggs? Or an 11 HP what?
 
I am not expert that one since we have one with 16 hp brigg horticzal not vertical.

My bet that steer's rod bend so it rubbing to engine's block.

I have see many gilson have 8 to 10 hp brigg flathead engine.

Can you pull steer's rod more moving away from block? Or it hard to bend?
 
Yt11he

The rod appears to be 7/16". That's just a quick guess with a ruler, but I suppose it could be 3/8". Even 3/8" seems pretty strong. It does have a dog leg to pass the engine but not anywhere near enough. This is a vertical engine machine. When I get into the dash tower and sector gear I'll know more.

I have searched to no avail...well, I did find a reference of a Jovee selling one. That thread was about a Dixon he was rebuilding. He casually mentioned he was selling his YT11. His had the deck lift lever on the right -- mine is on the left.

It only took a carb float bowl gasket to get it running. Other bad parts include front wheel bearings but I haven't pulled them off yet. Appears to have original tires. All four Armstrong.

Anything else will have to be tomorrow. It's gettin' kinda dark.

Thanks Dan.
 
Well you can bend but much effort to do that but I did many time but we use channel lock wrench and pull then twist it will be more like { hard to explain but like steel is straight but want more little curve.


For rim with bad bearing. I have see many cheap those go on ebay for 10 to 30 dollars.

Well for gilson it get more rare everyday but I believe Bobodu have gilson lawn tractor but not sure what model he have.
 
Evening Ted,
I'm assuming the rod that is rubbing on the side of the engine has some sort of ball joint on the end to pivot on? If so sometimes these become loose and worn, or if they are the type that are threaded on the end of the rod they become loose. Either of these things could cause the rod to rub on the engine.
The other possibility is that someone has tried to move the engine back (maybe to make the deck belt fit) which would also cause a problem.

Its likely the deck just needs a longer belt.

Front wheel bearings are generally a standard bearing, get them measured up at a bearing supplier and you should save money over OEM bearings.
 
Rod Serling's Bearings

The way these front wheels go from splayed out to pigeon-toed I'll be happy if there is any bearings in the hubs to get numbers off of. I pulled off the little plastic hub cover and there was plenty of grease...also about 1/2" of play between the wheel and the thrust washer and cotter pin. Maybe about 6º of wobble around the hub with the wheel off the ground. All the grease was a good sign because it looked like the little plastic cap had been on there for years.

As to the steering rod, I have a torch and what Mith refers to as a BFH.:thumb: Also a 'tweaker' I made years ago that looks like a tall letter 'F'. It's good for putting kinks in or taking them out. About 20" long 1/2" rod with fingers about 1 1/2" long 3" apart welded to one end. The second finger has been 'adjusted' several times over the years. Just grind it off and weld it back where it wants to be. Works pretty good when you need it. I've also seen them made with a piece of channel on the end.

Well hopefully tomorrow will be a better day.
God Bless
 
Measure the ID of the wheel and the OD of the spindle, and you should be able to get a bearing using those measurements. Better yet, the spindle will most likely be 3/4" OD, and take the wheel in with you get get the correct bearing.

I like the idea of 'tweaking' the steering rod with a BFH :D
 
Did you got new bearing for that front rim?

Have you consider check drive belt? If belt is worn out then gear drive don't work good like weak or slip.

How engine run good? I will suggested keep change oil every 3 months because it get much sludge that how we have 2 brigg 12 hp motor go bad because sludge build in oil pan plus don't have enough oil that how it broke oil slinger and rod.
 
I'm not really worried about the front wheel bearings yet. I suspect they may be bushings instead of bearings. If I keep this little tractor I'll swap out the bushings for bearings. If I remember correctly it's set up similiar to an Ariens I had in the late 80's. With the fine dusty sand at Lake Sam Rayburn I was replacing bushings every year. Back then I wasn't really concentrating on remembering things though.

Here's a pic that will give you a general idea of the vintage:

xPosTech


What concerns me is the angle the mower belt takes. When the deck is raised to the transport position any slack it might have is gone. The belt is fairly new, not glazed or cracked.

The belt engage/disengage lever also jams even after I removed the belt. I suspect the belt put such a strain on the linkage something under there is bent or a bit wonky. Heh. In this view you can see the drive pulley under the frame rail:

xPosTech


I don't think the pulley should be that low. Yet another clue re: an engine swap. I was expecting a Kohler the first time I lifted the hood.

This is, I think, a mid to late 80's YT11. The L head Briggs, however, is coded 286707, 0529-E1, 980903Z0. The night shots hide all the rust spots, pedal wear, etc. It does not look that good in the daylight. Was Gilson alive and making machines in 1998? I thought they died in the 80's. Maybe Bobodu or JoVee can shed some light.

Once I cleaned the tank, put a carb bowl gasket on it and put in fresh gas, it fired right up. No smoke. Idles well and revs up nicely. Oil was a little low so I had to add oil in order to warm it up to change it. No filter of course. That oil really wanted to be changed.

The hydro seems sluggish. There are no markings on the reservoir as to correct fill level. The current level in the reservoir is about an inch below the (large - 3"?) cap. I guess I'll measure it when I drain it tomorrow. I'm assuming, of course, I can find a drain plug. I'm also hoping to find plugs for hydraulic lift. Doesn't hurt to dream every now and then.

Later. Thanks Dan and Jim.

Ted
 
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Just a few updates on the transaxle. Gunk and a pressure washer took most of the accumulated grease off.

The differential unit is a Peerless Model 1334 date code 5231 6664. I have found an IPB for it at Small Engine Suppliers. The only markings on the hydro assy. is stamped behind the fan: 700 002 H15F CCW.

Tecumseh/Peerless considers the pump assy. sealed and not field repairable. This sounds oddly familiar. Almost as if I had seen it somewhere before.:whistle:

In their transaxle service guide:

http://www.smallenginesuppliers.com...eh/Tecumseh_Transaxle_Service_Information.pdf

Tecumseh also says that most sluggish/low power symptoms are due to shift lever and brake linkage adjustments, rather than pump problems.

Next steps are to R&R the differential gear lube and ATF in the pump along with the adjustments.

I'm not a big fan of flipping the pump upside down to drain it (and getting all the crud at the bottom back in the pump:notthatway:) so that stainless 12V utility pump at Harbor Freight is starting to look pretty good as a portable sump. The differential has drain and fill plugs.:thumb:

Y'all have a Merry Christmas
Ted
 
For me I would need find correct oil for that hydro. I believe Jovee at LMC know that but I feel it use 80W but I am not sure. Don't put oil until someone is expert with that I mean they tell what correct oil for that.


Don't be surprise that oil it almost black plus pink oil in there.
 
Thanks Dan

The specs I can find all call for 44oz SAE 90W EP gear oil for the diff and up to 8 pints ATF Type A for the hydro. I've read where others (individuals) use Dextron and Dextron III, but I think that is for Eaton units. More research is needed to pin it down.

Thanks for the heads up, Mark. I know of the Gilsons Collectors on Yahoo but missed the one you posted. I'll check'em out.

The Briggs is a definite repower. It was originally fitted with an 11HP Briggs. I have seen references to possible rubber motor mounts, or a mounting plate. If these were discarded when the engine was replaced, it would explain the really really low stack pulley. The stack pulley shield is also missing.:sad:

All references I've found for Gilson hydraulic lifts use a separate pump. Good news is there is plenty of room between the jackshaft and transaxle for another pump or small alternator if I want to go electric.

I still haven't pulled the front wheels. If I find significant wear on the spindles I might go ahead and upgrade them to 1". I may put a dirt blade on this thing at some point.

If I have to raise the engine to make everything 'right' I might just swap it out with a 20HP VTwin Briggs I have just sitting there with nothing to do.:mrgreen: Might as well put it to work.

It's cold (54ºF) and drizzly :umbrella: right now so I don't think I'll get much accomplished today. Will try to find some data on the hydro pump and engine mounting.

Bone Sworer You All:wave:
Ted
 
I was able to do a little more today since it wasn't raining. This first shot is looking through the jack under the front axle and tie rod. It's more like a tie channel since it's not a rod but a stamped channel. I will probably replace the channel with an adjustable tie rod or shorten and add adjusters to the channel so I can get rid of the toe-out.
DSC00047.jpg

You might be able to see that the front axle is sitting on two bricks on each side of the jack (behind the tie channel).

The camera is level with the bottom of the bottom pulley. Even the upper pulley, for a 42" deck, is too low for my 36" deck, seen behind the pulley. I haven't tried using the 42" pulley. Frankly, I'm leery of using the deck at all, since as it is now, it won't disengage because of the extreme belt angle. This is either the wrong stack pulley or an engine mounting plate is missing.:sad: The pulley guard is definitely missing.:mad2:

I finally pulled a front wheel to look at the spindle and bearings. Cross that and make it pressed in bushings. Can you see the zerk on the front wheel? It's at 6:00 oclock. I don't think the PO even knew it was there.
DSC00044.jpg

You can also see the end of the tie rod (channel) on the right side. There is significant slop in the whole linkage. I'll know more what to do about it when I tear it down.

This last pic is another shot of the spindle. To tell you the truth, I didn't realize it was worn this much till I studied the picture. There is some scoring to the inside of the spindle shaft but the bottom sure didn't feel like it was worn as much as I can see in the pic. I need to get that mike.
DSC00046.jpg

Another problem has cropped up. The key won't kill the engine. I'm not too concerned right now as it's fixin' (a Texan term) to get rewired. One of my pet peeves is bad wiring.

Later
Ted
 
Can you take a picture of the belt angle when the deck at mid cutting height?

Looks like its time for some new spindles. You'll probably be able to adapt alot of different types of spindle to fit, they are generally similar.
 
Hi Jim

I'm in a little bit of a hurry right now but to update you on the deck prob. The brake bar on the rear of the deck was frozen. Brake pads are missing. The chain link at the lift was pinned on the wrong side of the lift lever, causing the engage/disengage breakover (for lack of a better term) arm to bind and bend. That arm was also on the wrong side of the engage/disengage lever. Someone (deck has been repainted so it's been off) reversed those pins, I assume to make the hitch pins (hair pins?) easier to access from the left side.

I now have slack in the belt when disengaged. The blades still spin when disengaged, but that's due to missing brake pads. I'm not sure yet if I'll have to raise the engine. I need to check the shaft lengths for the original 252707 11hp and the 286707 12.5hp. The stack pulley seems correct.

The Briggs 12.5 is not running at full rpm. I need a tach but instead of the vibrator type I think I'll pick up one of the inexpensive tach/hour meters and use it just for setting governors. They have a pigtail that just loops around the spark plug wire. I have one on the Toro ZTR but it's permanently mounted.

Most of the slop in the front wheels is the little ball joints in the steering linkage. I think they probably all need replacing. I'm checking prices now.

The kill circuit is still wonky. Next step is to rewire the whole machine. Paint is last step once I get everything working.

I've got to get out the door in the next 5 minutes. Maybe I'll get time this afternoon to get y'all some deck pics.

Thanks
Ted
 
Mith said:
Can you take a picture of the belt angle when the deck at mid cutting height?
<snip>
Click to expand...

The first is mid height, blades engaged. Heh...that belt angle looks OK to me.:huh: I think I already know what the problem is.:pat:

The second one is in transport with the blades engaged.

And the last with the blades disengaged. Before I 'adjusted' the lift pin and engagement pins, I could not disengage the blades. The extreme angle of the belt threw me.:sad: I added a link (or maybe two?) to the hanger chain trying to lessen the angle, so the deck is lower than it normally would be in the transport position.

That extreme angle is because there is no lift linkage at the rear of the deck.:wtf: When this wind dies down (63°F and gusting to 25+) I'll find where the rear lift linkage wants to go.

Questions:

The rear of the deck is still on the gage wheels as it is now. The rear should lift higher than the front in transport position? So that the belt would naturally angle to the stack pulley?

Should the deck move forward when rising to the transport position? Instead of lifting at the rear? I need to check my other machines. I have mulched leaves with both Murrays with the decks raised, but not with the WH or Scotts(Deere).

Should there be an interlock switch to insure blades are disengaged in transport? It would seem to me that the belt would get a lot of wear spinning the blades with that angle (2nd pic), to say nothing of the downward thrust pressure on the deck spindles and excessive side load to the stack pulley (and PTO bearing in the Briggs).:badidea:

I must confess I haven't paid enough attention to the belt angles or lift geometry on my other machines. Maybe it's time to take a look.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction, Jim. (Unless I'm out in left field.)

Ted
 

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Wow, that is quite an angle! I see what you mean.
The belt looks about right in the middle cutting height though. What is the belt angle like on the top and bottom cutting height?
If the belt angle is OK on the top cutting hight then that might just be how it is, the belt should be inline on the mid cutting height, as it is in the picture you show.
If the angle is quite shallow on the bottom cutting height you could flip the belt onto the higher of the stack pulleys. Is that the stock stack pulley? Is the trans drive belt in line, that would indicate the engine is the right height.

There probably wont be an interlock to stop you running the blades in transport, though with that angle it would be advisable not to. Honestly, all the tractors I have come across dont have a belt angle that severe even in transport position.

As I say, if the belt is OK in top and bottom cutting heights then its probably about right, you just need to disengage the cutters when raising it to transport. Not ideal, and I find it hard to believe they designed it that way, but it seems to be the case looking at your pictures.

The deck should lift straight up and remain level all the way up, as you say, it needs a link of 2 taken out the back.
 
That's my problem, Mith. There is no lift connection at the back. It almost seems to be pivoting up on the rear gage wheels. I'll know more when I go up a couple of links on the front. It should then be obvious where the rear lift should connect. I was not expecting the rear lift to be missing so I didn't pay any attention to the rear.

The stack pulley is long. I don't know if the 252707 (original) engine has a ball-bearing or bronze bearing on the bottom but that side load may explain the repower.

The wind is cold outside. It's now 47° and dropping fast. Supposed to be a hard freeze tonight. I need a garage. Better yet, a barn. A heated barn.

Ted
 
Well DUH.:pat: :oops:

Mith there is a lift cable at the rear of the deck. In the first pic (previous post) look just ahead of the right rear wheel. What looks like a kink in the cable is the plastic sheathing skinned back from wear at the pulley (when deck is lifted). In this pic the cable is slack.

In the second pic (deck raised) the cable is taut but binding on the bunched up sheathing.:ohmy:

Oh well.:( I've been meaning to get a ferrule crimper. Time to get that and make up a new cable.

Life is good when you have a plan.:thumb:

Thanks for working this out for me Mith. You da man.:king:
Ted

PS: We don't have a "dunce" smilie.
 
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