SHOW us your diesel storage/filling set up.

lb59 said:
Lots of guys have set up 30 and 55 gallon drums for this.
I don't know that any of them had to buy one of these caddys to fix a problem with their set up.
I'm asking how do I go about grounding what I have.
I'm not interested in spending twice as much as I already have for something I have to take somewhere to get filled and have to use a hand crank to pump fuel instead of an electric pump.

I've heard much about a problem now I'd like to see reasonable solutions as I'd like to get this matter resolved and move on to something else.

== L B ==
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Have a grounding wire grounded to the fittings on the "tank" or the pump housing. Have another grounding wire with a quick clamp ground to the vehicle you are fueling. Have these wires connected to a 6 foot copper rod driven into the ground. Make it safer and put a metal band around the poly drum and ground that band.
Check under y'alls new pickup trucks and you will see a black painted poly tank. I was always told don't put diesel in steel containers. The moisture in the fuel and steel make rust. Go aluminum if you can.
It ain't fun working on an airliner that isn't grounded when it gets hit by lightning. I can still feel that tingle.
hugs, Brandi
 
Bindian said:
It ain't fun working on an airliner that isn't grounded when it gets hit by lightning. I can still feel that tingle.
hugs, Brandi
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How about the little tingle of touching the fuel nozzle to the filler pipe of an ungrounded airplane? :eek: (Doc, we don't have a KABOOM smilie so I used "eek")
 
Jim Slagle said:
How about the little tingle of touching the fuel nozzle to the filler pipe of an ungrounded airplane? :eek: (Doc, we don't have a KABOOM smilie so I used "eek")
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While I baby sat the US Postal DC-9, I had fuelers all the time fueling without grounding wires. It usually is okay. But I would report them anyway. Jet A and diesel don't go kaboom very often. It is the gasoline fueled birds that can go kaboom from that. Fuelers are taught not to let the nozzle touch the rim of the tank opening on general aviation birds.
hugs, Brandi
 
Jim Slagle said:
I should have said av gas :pat:

80/87 and 100/130 are a little more volatile. Do they still make 80/87? Seems like I heard it had been discontinued.

Jim
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Jim,
When I worked in general aviation back in the late 70s and early 80s....a person would be hard pressed then to find 100/130. It was replace by 100LL. Maybe at Mojave Airport or other airports where a lot of Warbirds were you could find 100/130. 80/87 was gone and replaced by 100LL That is about the time Teledyne Continental Motors quit making the O-200 engine. The O-200 was 100 horsepower in the Cessna 150. It ran on 80/87 and then straight 80 Octane. When the LOW LEAD (LL) fuel came out, Cessna quit making the 150 trainer and came out with the Cessna 152 that used the Lycoming O-235 (@ 110hp) and ran on 100LL. The older engines really had teething problems on the lower leaded fuel. For those of y'all that don't know what two different octanes with a "/" means.........in 80/87...the 80 is the octane with the mixture lean. 87 is the octane with the mixture full rich. I only knew of large round engines using 100/130. This was the warbirds and the old piston engined airlines.........back in the glory days of aviation. When your pilot could look out the window and see a glowing red exhaust at night. Engines that used 100/130 and wasn't designed for it, say a Ford Falcon modified into a dragster....................burnt up valves every or every other run!
hugs, Brandi
 
Archdean said:
From my personal experience sitting inside an aircraft during a "HOT REFUEL" operation even with the turbines shut down and the fuel truck (JP4 and it's cousins) about the same as diesel, grounded to the aircraft and ultimately grounded to a live earth ground point. Under certain atmospheric conditions it can begin to smoke and DID!!(the first precursor to full fledged ignition) all because the tank was in effect a poly/rubber bladder! similar to what your storing your fuel in!

I personally use an aluminum 100 gallon boat tank mounted in my pickup to transport both gasoline and diesel to and from where I need it and make damn sure it is legitimately well grounded!

I would feel very uneasy being around your poly drum and your not doing yourself any favors locating it next to your battery charger!

Dean
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Archdean,
Are you sure the fuel truck was grounded? I can't believe a rubber bladder that was properly grounded would cause that. All Bell helicopters including the Hueys, and a lot of twin engine piston aircraft use fuel bladders. They are all properly designed and grounded to the fuel pumps. Maybe the fueler was smoking in a prohibitive area and had to throw the lite cancer stick away in a hurry so he wouldn't get caught?
Could be a number a reasons other than a rubber/poly bladder. Braided ground (bonding) wires that get flexed a lot break. It could have been the cause.
hugs, Brandi
 
Bindian said:
Archdean,
Are you sure the fuel truck was grounded? I can't believe a rubber bladder that was properly grounded would cause that. All Bell helicopters including the Hueys, and a lot of twin engine piston aircraft use fuel bladders. They are all properly designed and grounded to the fuel pumps. Maybe the fueler was smoking in a prohibitive area and had to throw the lite cancer stick away in a hurry so he wouldn't get caught?
Could be a number a reasons other than a rubber/poly bladder. Braided ground (bonding) wires that get flexed a lot break. It could have been the cause.
hugs, Brandi
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I hope this thread keeps going. The info 'you all', are posting is over my experience level for sure, but I'm learning a little with every post. Grounding fuel systems is something we all need as much information on as possible.
Thanks, Nica.
 
Bindian said:
Jim,
When I worked in general aviation back in the late 70s and early 80s....a person would be hard pressed then to find 100/130.
Click to expand...

This was in the early 60's. The training school had a couple of Super Cubs and a 172. The flying club had two Colts (2 seater tripacer with a lycoming 108 better known as flying rocks). There was a Taylorcraft based there too. I don't remember ever pumping anything but 80/87 but there was a 100/130 pump. Maybe some of the business folks based there used it. I was only there on Saturdays, in school during the week.

Jim
 
Have used all and a bunch of 115/145 (smells great)

A great discussion on fuels :tiphat: I went through the process of getting a certificate to use auto gas in my C145 only to be discouraged with the whole process when the new ethanol craze started!

Avgas Grades

Avgas 80/87 is used in low compression ratio aircraft engines, and contains little or no lead (up to .5 grams of lead per gallon is allowed, but none is required). It is red in color, and should not be used in any automotive engine due to a low motor octane number of about 80.

Avgas 100/130 can be used in some automotive engines. It has both research and motor octane numbers slightly over 100. Avgas 100/130 is green in color, contains four grams of lead per gallon, and is becoming hard to find.

Avgas 100 LL (the LL stands for "low-lead") contains two grams per gallon, half the lead contained in the avgas 100/130 it was designed to replace. It has research and motor octane numbers very similar to 100/130 avgas. The color is blue. This product sometimes has a high level of aromatics.

Avgas 115/145 was developed for high performance piston aircraft engines used in World War II and the Korean conflict. It is very hard to find today due to lack of demand, and is usually only produced on special order. The color is purple.

A great source with links
 
If interested this works and you may want to do this on the crap you get at your local outlet for your car/truck/tractor

The following steps describe how to test if there is any alcohol in your Mogas:
  • Using a glass or chemical resistant plastic (such as TPX) container, mark ten equally spaced volumes. A graduated cylinder is ideal; however, a non-tapered glass jar, such as a large (quart) olive bottle, will work.
  • Add one part of water (approximately 100 ml) into the container, fill to the first mark, and then add nine parts (approximately 900 ml) of automotive gasoline, fill to the top mark. Shake thoroughly, let stand for 10 minutes or until automotive gasoline is again bright and clear. Record the apparent level of the line between the automotive gasoline and water.
Interpreting the above test:
  • If alcohol is present in the automotive gasoline, the water will absorb it, and the amount of water will appear to increase, indicating the automotive gasoline should not be used in the aircraft.
  • However, if the water level remains the same, no alcohol is present in the automotive gasoline and it can be used in the aircraft.
Operators of aircraft approved for operation with Mogas containing methanol or ethanol shall consider the lower energy content of such fuel (higher fuel consumption).
 
Thanks, Dean. It seems to me it would be possible to engineer an alcohol removal process using the above. A five gallon Blitz container, a recirculation pump, a few feet of marine clear fuel line and a 2 1/2 gal graduated sediment bowl. Assuming low efficiency, 10% ethanol and "batching" it (heh...that's me) one should be able to add two gallons of gasoline and two gallons of water and have alcohol free gas in just a few minutes.

A two phase process would probably work best. Mix at a fairly high flow rate and then a low flow rate to separate the gas and water. Or just let settle and drain from the bottom. When the "water" volume rose to 281.6 ounces (256 +25.6) most of the alcohol would be absorbed, leaving 230.4 ounces of alcohol free gas. (Testing would tell the tale.)

I'm tired of rebuilding the carbs on my Ryobi two cycle engines. The ethanol attacks the fuel pump membranes, primer bulbs, gaskets on the fuel caps and who knows what else. I used to run two cycle engines at least ten years without a carb rebuild. Not any more.

I hope it's not raining tomorrow. When I've got too much time on my hands I start thinking up all kinds of weird stuff. :cool:

Your last comment. Did they give it that moniker cause you use mo gas?

Ted
 
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