Training Collar for BC

[D&D Farm]

We have 2 Border Collies........One is 3 and the other is barely a year old.......The 3 yo is our herding dog and is really pretty good at it for being taught by me.........The 1 yo will be good but is still to squirly........Both are totally smart and obedient and crave learning new stuff.

OK......Since we got the young one the two tend to pack up and roam........I guess the situation now is my fault, as when she was a few months old we would run her next to the RTV for the 1/2 mile drive to the barn for exercise..........After awhile the two dogs would smell something and head for parts unknown.......We live in a pretty rural/forested area with a national forest bordering on 2 sides so no one that way to complain about them running...........On the other 2 sides we taught them where the boundries are and they would not cross them or if they did they would come back totally guilty looking when the would VERY QUICKLY come back.........they know...........

Then they got into the habit of heading out when you start up the RTV and no turning back.........OR.......If one is tied up the other will not go running; but as soon as you let the one off of the chain, they give each other a look and GONE......It's the young one that is the leader of this I feel; but the older one is right in there.............Once they give each other the look, they might be 10 feet from you, and WILL NOT STOP...........They are GONE and MAY be back in an hour or so.............

Ok..........our Momma LGD, livestock guard dog, has decided that she wants to be a porch/yard dog and will not stay in a pasture.........She goes over an electric woven wire fence or over an electrified barn gate in the barn to escape the pasture........She DOES not go running with the BCs when they head out........She stays around the house....EXCEPT..........

I mentioned earlier that the BCs KNOW about the boundries to the south and west where there are neighbors maybe 100 yards away..........They would NOT go there after just a bit of harsh talking/training...........NOW THOUGH

Momma LGD thinks that the neighbor dogs are a threat and when she goes part way over towards the neighbors and barks at the dogs, the BCs think that gives them the right to go all the way over to the neighbors and cause a rucus............ONE NEIGHBOR IS TRULY COMPLAINING..........He has a fenced yard and the BCs are carrying on through the fence at his dogs......ESPECIALLY THE YOUNG ONE.............Momma dog just stands back and watches the rucus.........Another neighbor hood pack is intimidated by these dogs but the young one did get torn up a bit the other day.............

The neighbor and I get along; but I see his point so I advised him to PLEASE pop off a round in the air when MOMMA dog is around, she is terrified of gun shots. Perhaps this will teach her to not go down there............I also asked him to use a BB gun on the young BC to get her outta there........When he yells at her she just looks at him..........When I hear the carrying on I call the dogs and they come........they know better but it seems that the BCs follow the momma dog, who stubbornly refuses to check out what is going on........

Soooooo........2 problems

1. The BCs running when I dont want them to and how to get them to stop......

2. The momma LGD leading the way towards the neighbors and the BCs following and causing problems with neighbor dogs through the fence.......

Yes, I have scolded, and tried that training technique...........THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING

Yes, I have chained one up........The momma dog still goes to check it out but not all the way

Yes I have kept them in the house......the momma dog still checks out the stuff

What I am wondering is how well do the shock collars work in this situation???? What if I gave the neighbor a remote to shock them in addition to one I would use to work on the running situation?...............Does just the momma dog need a collar in order to train her about the boundries???????.........Does just the young dog need a collar to teach her NOT to run?????????

YOUR advise is needed.......Thanks and God bless.......Dennis

 

[bordercollie]

Hi D&D,I have a few thoughts on this but may have to finish some of them tomorrow as the small quota on Hughesnet is fast approaching and then ,the net just crawls. When we first got our collies as puppies, if they weren't with us or in the house, we kept them on the porch with a railing (the house is 4ft off the ground because of floods in this area when it was built in 1842) . We talk to them like kids and they know us by our first names even. Once they started working with us and the cows their instincts just naturally kicked in. Now Millie is much better at cows than Belle but she tries to please me. They are over 10 years old now. We don't have neighbors close and we might have problems if we did. However, I don't allow them to run free. I let them know just what will happen if they don't mind and never, ever,EVER let them call my bluff. When they go out to the edge of the yard /pasture and consider rolling etc. in cow pooh, they are told just how bad it is to do that and get a cold bath if needed.(In the warm house to dry) They know they are in trouble and circle around but I'll be behind them complaining to 'em no matter what.After shaming them vocally, I banish them to the porch and the sole company of the boring calico cat.I tell them ;"no run off or the porch for you!!" and they know what that means . Uhh... they will also potty when I tell them to or pretend to so I will congratulate them. Our pups want to please and will do most anything for praise. I keep a whip that will pop on the RTV to move cows with and the pups love the sound when it's directed at moving cows but not when directed at them.I don't hit them with it but it sounds scary when popped. Then there is the attention they get for being so good. They serve as a good hand warmer as I rub those heads and tell them just how good they were at what ever it was they did- be it staying on the RTV for 20 minutes while I load the feed wagon with the skid steer or finding lost birds, moving the cows, or whatever.... I think if you could get yours to respect your authority then they would mind. I'm sort of like a flea, I'm on their heels when they try to be bad so they just give up on it. Good Luck, Bordercollie

 

[bordercollie]

D&D, I have never used a shock collar on our collies. They know they better follow the rules or look over their shoulders cause I will be there and their bad actions will make me very unhappy and so on. But, they know that we love them and they eagerly live to serve and to make their masters happy. This sounds crazy butI make eye to eye contact with 'em and "tell them what I think of their actions- bad or good" and it works positively most of the time. Could it be that you pups are bored?If you give ours a ball or basketball they will play with it and roll it around till their noses are raw. Then they are too tired to move.... Well ,good luck with it, Bordercollie

 

[D&D Farm]

Hey Border Collie............Thanks for the thoughts and ordered the collars that should be here tomorrow.........I like you have never used a shock collar and have been training dogs for at least 50 years......I MUST DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE YOUNG one who insists that she is alpha and can go where and when she pleases........Not bad as I know she will outgrow it, I hope and pray, but meanwhile the neighbor complains about her presence so the situation cannot be ignore.

She is taking turns with the older ol guy, 3, being chained up.....If one is chained or in the house the other will not wander or run.........HE OBEYS and listens when she is NOT distracting him with her play...........

Thanks so much for the ball thoughts.......dug out an ol soccer ball and the young one is in doggy heaven after she discovered how to hook a tooth in a seam and carry it......We live on the side of a mountain so she has a LONNNNNG roll to play with........

By the way, she is a BORDER COLLIE and He is an Australian Shepherd.......Do you reckon there is this much difference......He is solid and serious and she is as close to ADHD as I have ever had in a dog..............Thanks again...........God Bless.......Dennis

 

[bordercollie]

Hi D&D, Yea, pups are like children, they need boundaries or things can sometimes get out of hand.Some dogs are just high strung and so the collar may be necessary in order to prevent serious problems with the neighbor. It is probably just the youth in the collie causing so much mischief though-border collies just need a lot of exercise or something to watch /do. In the picture I posted earlier in this thread, you can see the half flat basketball on the back of the RTV. Millie is obsessed with it. I decided back in the early '80's that pups that obeyed me were easy to live with so I started training them to be lifetime family members. Good Luck and keep us all informed on how things are going. Bordercollie

 

[Doc]

I used a shock collar to train a collie /golden retriever mix. He would go into or across the State Route near my house. A very busy road. The shock collar did the trick like nothing else could. Be careful of how you train though if they realize it's the collar and they know when they do not have the collar on they can do as they please. Just don't be obvious with when you change collars and you should have no problem.

 

[D&D Farm]

They really do WORK

It is truly amazing to see the collar work and the dogs adapt to them so easily. The kind I got has a zapper button, a heavy duty zapper button, and a noise button for me to push. Yes, I can control both dogs from the same remote.

I am using the noise button to teach "come". Yes, they know it well; but when they head out for their little adventures or go visit the neighbors they tend to ignore my verbal commands. NOW what happens is I hit the noise button once or twice and they stop in their tracks and come to me............It took just a VERY few times of verbal, noise button, and then zap to get them to realize that they need to stop and come back to me........When running them next to the RTV they tend to smell or see something and head out for parts unknown.........NOW the command "run" and a zap to reinforce keeps them within perhaps at the most 10 feet of the RTV.........this is fantastic...........

No, it doesnt make them run around with their tail between their legs nor knock them on their tails..........Just having the collar on DOES now tend to bring calm to the outside situation...........God is good......Dennis

 

[EastTexFrank]

I'm glad that they worked for you. Some adoption agencies and shelters will veto your application if you say that you use shock collars but I think that they are a great training device. I've always used them, or I should say, my dogs have always worn them. I bring out the collars, rattle the buckles and they come running because they know they are going outside for playtime. It's quite funny. I can't remember the last time I actually had to shock any of the dogs but it's still part of our regular routine. In fact the shock collar is the only thing that stopped our big dog from becoming coyote fodder. She came back from one of her wanders down into "the thicket" with puncture marks on both sides of her throat and the vet said that the shock collar was probably the only thing that prevented the coyote (or other dog) from clamping down. She was lucky.

No, if they are used sensibly, they are a great attention getter when the dogs are far off. Dogs are smart. They learn fast but as Doc said, they can tell when they don't have them on and may feel the need to indulge in some independent thinking.