Managing a Burn Pile

[Dougster]

I know that some of you do this all the time, but this is new territory for me. Looks like a couple of my early jobs in the new digging season will include this component. Up here in the People's Republic it takes all kinds of daily permits & permissions, time limitations, size limitations, availability of water, limits on wind speed/direction, etc., etc., etc... but that is not my main area of concern. I am more interested in the specific equipment you would use to feed and manage the burn pile... and how to use it effectively, safely and without damage to that equipment. The burn will consist mostly of old trees, logs and tree stumps that cannot be chipped.
As usual, any and all ideas and comments are greatly appreciated!
Dougster

 

[shinnlinger]

Doug,

I have burnt more than a few things in my day. Big thick stumps dont really burn at all unless you put them on an already very hot fire. and even then you will most likely have something left when you are done.

For this reason I would say if you could did a big fire pit with your hoe and feed the fire with your hoe and thumb and then bury the ashes/ unburnt stumps you might be happier, but I am sure the state of MAssachussetss would have some probems with that method

I have used both my tractor and my excavator on different occasions to get more complete burns on already established piles that I didnt have the foresite to dig a pit first. Ussually I try to consolidate the unburned wood over the hot coals by either pushing with the FEL occasionally or feeding it with the hoe.

Good luck.

 

[Dougster]

Doug,

I have burnt more than a few things in my day. Big thick stumps dont really burn at all unless you put them on an already very hot fire. and even then you will most likely have something left when you are done.

For this reason I would say if you could did a big fire pit with your hoe and feed the fire with your hoe and thumb and then bury the ashes/ unburnt stumps you might be happier, but I am sure the state of Massachusetts would have some problems with that method

I have used both my tractor and my excavator on different occasions to get more complete burns on already established piles that I didnt have the foresite to dig a pit first. Usually I try to consolidate the unburned wood over the hot coals by either pushing with the FEL occasionally or feeding it with the hoe.

Good luck.

We do have lots of restrictions down here, including a limited burn time of 4, 6 or 8 hours depending on the town. As you can tell, this does not lend itself to the burning of logs or stumps... but what can I do? These clients seem unwilling to pay the price of hauling out-of-state to my tub grinder guy.

Burying intact or half-burned logs and stumps is illegal here. And you know darn well I'd be the first one to end up in jail for life for that dastardly environmental offense.

Dougster

 

[shinnlinger]

Doug,

This would be a pain in the keister but if you get paid by the hour you may benifit by getting ahold of the biggest chainsaw with the biggest bar you can (rent?) and try to saw those things into as small hunks as possible so they burn better and get a fire going on an old car hood or in a oil tank cut in half so you can easily bag or scoop the ashes when they cool off (wait a few days before you load your dump trailer).


If you used a log splitter to split the wood once you cut the stumps into managble peices it may expidite the process.

Stumps though are dirty and will dull a chain quickly and filing a 24" bar every 1/2 hour will bring out the Zen in you.

Still it would probably be cheaper than hauling out of state and you would get the $$ instead of your gas tank or tub grinder.

 

[Dougster]

Doug, This would be a pain in the keister but if you get paid by the hour you may benifit by getting ahold of the biggest chainsaw with the biggest bar you can (rent?) and try to saw those things into as small hunks as possible so they burn better and get a fire going on an old car hood or in a oil tank cut in half so you can easily bag or scoop the ashes when they cool off (wait a few days before you load your dump trailer).

If you used a log splitter to split the wood once you cut the stumps into managble peices it may expidite the process.

Stumps though are dirty and will dull a chain quickly and filing a 24" bar every 1/2 hour will bring out the Zen in you.

Still it would probably be cheaper than hauling out of state and you would get the $$ instead of your gas tank or tub grinder.

I probably should have my tree guy take a look at the stuff in question and see what he thinks. He is the artist with the chainsaw thang. I had been thinking that I could just crunch the trees and logs apart with my backhoe, thumb, stump bucket and/or grapple. As for the stumps, if they won't burn down enough... I just don't know what to do other than haul them down to the grinder guy. No way I am going to take the legal risk of burying them.

Dougster

 

[mobilus]

Doug, it is illegal to return a stump to the ground that it came from? What if it had never been dug up in the first place, would it be illegal? Or is it the act of burying something itself? HOLY COW!

And you've got time limits on a burn pile? Insane.

Down here in the great state of Texas, the only place you can't burn is within city limits, and the only time you can't burn is during a county-wide burn ban due to the dry weather (like we're experiencing now). And, it is just common courtesy to call the sheriff's department to let them know you're doing a "controlled burn".

The total withdrawal from common sense might come one day, but for now, and from what I've read here, Texas might just be the state with the most freedom left intact.

One thing is for sure, neither love nor money would ever prompt a move to your state. I stand amazed...well, I'm sitting, but that doesn't sound right. You can still move down here, but you'd probably want to leave the snow plow behind. I know this hasn't been any help to your situation, but I've never had to deal with such restrictions. Good luck, old man.

Mark

 

[Jim_S]

I've burned a couple of stumps by drilling holes in them with a 7/8 24 inch long ships auger. Topped off the holes with diesel every few days. Nice hot fire and they burned down to a pile of coals.

It's probably against the law to burn diesel though

Jim

 

[Dougster]

Doug, it is illegal to return a stump to the ground that it came from? What if it had never been dug up in the first place, would it be illegal? Or is it the act of burying something itself? HOLY COW!

And you've got time limits on a burn pile? Insane.

Down here in the great state of Texas, the only place you can't burn is within city limits, and the only time you can't burn is during a county-wide burn ban due to the dry weather (like we're experiencing now). And, it is just common courtesy to call the sheriff's department to let them know you're doing a "controlled burn".

The total withdrawal from common sense might come one day, but for now, and from what I've read here, Texas might just be the state with the most freedom left intact.

One thing is for sure, neither love nor money would ever prompt a move to your state. I stand amazed...well, I'm sitting, but that doesn't sound right. You can still move down here, but you'd probably want to leave the snow plow behind. I know this hasn't been any help to your situation, but I've never had to deal with such restrictions. Good luck, old man.

Mark

Well, you are right of course... but it does me no good for me to b%$#& and moan about it. And no... we cannot return a stump to the ground from whence it came (hence the increasing popularity of stump grinders over stump pullers like moi). Heck, we can't even return purified water to the polluted source it came from. But we are getting a little off track here.

I am most interested in the equipment and technique you folks use to manage the good-sized burn pile. Do you tend it with the backhoe? With the FEL bucket? With a grapple? With forks? Some homemade attachment? Is it better to rent something (like a skid steer?) rather than risk fire/heat/smoke/ash damage to your own tractor? Do you improvise something so you can get closer to the pile without risk? Do you toast marshmallows or hot dogs? These are the kinds of things I'd like to understand better.

Dougster

 

[Jim_S]

I use the fel and I have a 65 gallon 3 point fertilizer spreader with a hand spray hose I keep full of water.

 

[Dougster]

I've burned a couple of stumps by drilling holes in them with a 7/8 24 inch long ships auger. Topped off the holes with diesel every few days. Nice hot fire and they burned down to a pile of coals. It's probably against the law to burn diesel though
Jim

I use the fel and I have a 65 gallon 3 point fertilizer spreader with a hand spray hose I keep full of water.

I don't like the sound of that "every few days" if they only give me 4 to 8 hours of burn time. Obviously, these very restrictive permits are not aimed at burning stumps.

In regard to water, I'm sure the towns require a working hose to continuously wet down adjacent areas... and maybe even a backup supply as well.

Dougster

 

[Jim_S]

I don't like the sound of that "every few days" if they only give me 4 to 8 hours of burn time. Obviously, these very restrictive permits are not aimed at burning stumps. Dougster

The "every few days" is BEFORE you light it

The diesel soaks in, the dryer the stump the more it absorbs. Then when you light it the fire travels into the stump through the holes.

 

[Mith]

With all the hassle you mention Dougster, I'd probably tell them they need to pay me to take the stuff away for grinding, stack it up for someone else to burn, or I wouldnt do the job. Just IMO.
Not worth the hassle, legal risk, and risk on my equipment.
Are you insured to have a fire on their property?

 

[PaulChristenson]

We haul stumps and garbage logs to the recycling dump, where they grind it up for the power plants...We only get Two burn permits per year issued here in Vermont incorporated areas...they also inspect the burn piles...no stumps, no treated wood, no logs over such and such size...
Needless to say...chippers and grinders are in hot demand up here...

 

[shinnlinger]

Jim,

I like your drill hole and fill with diesel idea.

Doug,

You will have a tough time breaking things up with your machine. My excavator with thumb will only dent stumps, not break them.

I would cut them into small enough peices so they could be split, maybe even drill holes with the "Slagle method" and then burn.

I just use common sense when consolidating a burning pile. Just push the unburned stuff with your toothed bucket or forks, being carefull not to drive on any hot coals. Every once in a while you could spin around and use your hoe to "stir the pot" if you will.

Can you bury ashes???

Mobilius and Paul,

If there is snow on the ground, I just call the cheif and let him know I'm gonna burn...no sales tax either.

 

[Jim_S]

Jim, I like your drill hole and fill with diesel idea.

It is more interesting if you use gasoline. I wouldn't stand very close when you light it.

 

[Dougster]

The "every few days" is BEFORE you light it The diesel soaks in, the dryer the stump the more it absorbs. Then when you light it the fire travels into the stump through the holes.

Something tells me these clients are not going to pay me to hang around for days at a time trying to burn their stumps. Perhaps a compromise is in order. Burn logs and brush... haul away stumps!

With all the hassle you mention Dougster, I'd probably tell them they need to pay me to take the stuff away for grinding, stack it up for someone else to burn, or I wouldn't do the job. Just IMO. Not worth the hassle, legal risk, and risk on my equipment.
Are you insured to have a fire on their property?

The issue of managing burn piles never came up when discussing my business with my insurance broker... so I can't answer that question. To date, the trees/logs we've processed have either been chipped or kept for firewood and the majority of stumps have either been ground down in place or disposed of above ground elsewhere on the property (temporarily, of course! ). Very few folks are willing to pay the very high pricetag for off-site stump disposal.

We haul stumps and garbage logs to the recycling dump, where they grind it up for the power plants...We only get Two burn permits per year issued here in Vermont incorporated areas...they also inspect the burn piles...no stumps, no treated wood, no logs over such and such size... Needless to say...chippers and grinders are in hot demand up here...

I can get away with disposal of a limited amount of brush at the "recycling station" in town. Small-to-medium size stumps too if I am reasonable and cautious about it. Hauling in stumps from outside of town would be extremely risky.

Doug, You will have a tough time breaking things up with your machine. My excavator with thumb will only dent stumps, not break them. I would cut them into small enough pieces so they could be split, maybe even drill holes with the "Slagle method" and then burn. I just use common sense when consolidating a burning pile. Just push the unburned stuff with your toothed bucket or forks, being careful not to drive on any hot coals. Every once in a while you could spin around and use your hoe to "stir the pot" if you will. Can you bury ashes???

Thanks for the tips! Not sure if I can "bury" the ashes... but I sure can spread them around.

It is more interesting if you use gasoline. I wouldn't stand very close when you light it.

I can see where that could ruin my business very fast!

Dougster

 

[shinnlinger]

ONe price gets the stumps hauled, one price gets the stumps drilled and filled and then a week or so later you come back and burn.

Property owners would probaly keep the hole topped up while you were gone to help with the complet burn if they though it would save them a buck or two.

 

[Dougster]

ONe price gets the stumps hauled, one price gets the stumps drilled and filled and then a week or so later you come back and burn. Property owners would probaly keep the hole topped up while you were gone to help with the complet burn if they though it would save them a buck or two.

Don't want to violate client privacy, but the latter is not going to happen. These jobsites are not exactly close by either. I've still got plenty of time to talk them into off-site disposal. In the end, if this burning process really takes as long as you folks are suggesting, immediate haul-off and off-site disposal may even work out to be cheaper.

Dougster

 

[irwin]

Doug, how close are you to BeanTown? or is all Massachusetts that tough with the burn permits?
Do landowners have more freedom to burn?

Is this is a suburb or rural area?

Just a little nosy...I can't picture this as a big problem where I am, but my last place woulda been an issue.

 

[Dougster]

Doug, how close are you to BeanTown? or is all Massachusetts that tough with the burn permits? Do landowners have more freedom to burn? Is this is a suburb or rural area? Just a little nosy...I can't picture this as a big problem where I am, but my last place woulda been an issue.

Again, please understand that out of concern for client privacy I can't print the names of the towns... but I would describe them more as suburban as opposed to rural. I'm sure permit conditions vary from town to town, but that is not my concern. I am not the one that will be pulling these permits. The homeowners must do that. My concern is mainly about the equipment I should plan to use... mine and/or rental... and how to use it effectively and safely. This is not something I've been called upon to do before... and I have no desire to damage my machine for the sake of a few dollars.

Dougster