Mini excavator questions

[Doc]

Dougster mentioned that there are some good buys on mini excavators in another thread. He also mentioned that you can rent one easily from home deopot (I was not aware of that either).

I would prefer to own one so I could use it as I have time and when the weather cooperates.

How rugged are these mini's? Is there a lot of maintenence on them (ie: more than on a tractor).
Any other info to share with someone who had never even sat in the seat of a mini excavator?
I'm looking for an education.

 

[Dougster]

Dougster mentioned that there are some good buys on mini excavators in another thread. He also mentioned that you can rent one easily from home deopot (I was not aware of that either).

I would prefer to own one so I could use it as I have time and when the weather cooperates.

How rugged are these mini's? Is there a lot of maintenence on them (ie: more than on a tractor).
Any other info to share with someone who had never even sat in the seat of a mini excavator?
I'm looking for an education.

Just to add my two cents here... ... the "good buys" I was talking about seem to be in the used market (not new) and generally in sizes below those typically used for construction/commercial duty. My impression is that everyday folks tend to buy these used for a project or two and then dispose of them when the project is done... rather than keep them indefinitely as they might a compact tractor for continuing grounds maintenance and general uses, etc.

I should also point out that the term "good buys" is relative and what's a good buy to me is not necesarily a good buy to anyone else! My basis is looking at a machine purely from the point of view of it's ability to pay for itself. In that regard, there have been a number of machines on Craigslist and eBay recently that have met that criteria. A recent example is a 2005 Bobcat 328 (shown below) that went for a mere $12,500. Had it been closer than Florida, I might own it today.

There are plenty of other examples... just do a search on successfully completed sales on eBay. Bobcat brand units, in particular, tend to go for relatively short money. CATs, Deere's and Yanmars tend to command the premium bucks. Also, "zero tail swing" is very *IN* right now... so non-zero tail swing machines tend to sell for much less for roughly the same specs. Same for cabs: machines without cabs tend to be a lot less expensive.

I don't own one yet, so I can't comment on upkeep costs. Replacement rubber tracks et al are probably quite expensive, so I'd try to find a machine with recent replacements or at least decent ones on there now. As with any used construction machine, operating hours, proper maintenance and overall condition are everything.

Dougster

 

[Farmwithjunk]

The contractor I work for uses me as a substitute operator from time to time. I've logged a good many hours on a Bobcat mini-X like Dougster pictured. (except with enclosed cab) They'll amaze you at their capabilities. For reasons I'll never quite understand, Bobcat seems to sell cheaper (used) than other brands (that I wouldn't nessicarily consider better) More than anything, the Bobcat I ran impressed me with how smooth it was along with how fast it could "cycle" and not lose that "smooth" feel.

 

[Doc]

Good info guys.
Like you Dougster, I'm only considering a used machine. A 3PH hoe for my tractor w/ sub frame mount runs a little over 8k.
I would much prefer to have a mini excavator for a little bit more. I have driven a bobcat skid steer and liked it overall. It's a workhorse.
The bobcat you pictured looked awesome Dougster. I will start looking in my area and see what I can find ...with the understanding that this is just homework for a couple years down the road when I might be able to afford one.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Be prepared to go over it with a fine tooth comb if you do buy used, because they SOMETIMES can take a thrashing. We bought ours used from a Bobcat dealer who had it in his rental fleet for a year. Hours were low, and no damage done. He gave us a full warranty. I don't have the numbers at my disposal, but I do recall we bought it for $5500 under new retail price. The highest compliment I can pay any piece of equipment is when it holds up good to "operator by committee". One operator will take care of "his" equipment. When everyone and their brother run it, things get hammered. Our mini-X gets taken home on the weekends by a number of our employees. So far, no failures to report.

 

[Dougster]

Good info guys.
Like you Dougster, I'm only considering a used machine. A 3PH hoe for my tractor w/ sub frame mount runs a little over 8k.
I would much prefer to have a mini excavator for a little bit more. I have driven a bobcat skid steer and liked it overall. It's a workhorse.
The bobcat you pictured looked awesome Dougster. I will start looking in my area and see what I can find ...with the understanding that this is just homework for a couple years down the road when I might be able to afford one.

In the interest of full disclosure, that particular unit had been repainted and had new decals as well. But it also had brand new tracks and a few other recent upgrades. Like I said... had it been more local, I'd probably own it today.

If you are looking to keep it under the cost of a new backhoe attachment, you will probably be limited to the 4,000 lb class machines or maybe something a bit older. Whatever you decide, just make sure it has the specs... both power and depth/reach... to do what you plan to do!

Dougster

 

[Mith]

Well I must admit that I have spent a good few hours in the seat of a rental machine absolutely thrashing it.

These machines are 10x as robust as a tractor mounted backhoe.

The real money items to watch out for are the track motors, the rotating hydraulic manifold (that transfers the fluid from the top to the bottom half so you can spin 360) and the pumps.
Tracks aren't obscenely expensive for the rubber tracked models, you can find them on ebay for less.

I don't know the market in the US, but here it isn't much more expensive to buy an old 40,000lb digger than it is to buy a 6000lb digger, the smaller ones are so much more desirable. Of course, the maintenance is more on the bigger machine.

Doc, go and hire one, that will give you a better impression of what they can do than we could ever tell you over the net. Just don't forget to take pictures.

 

[Doc]

Doc, go and hire one, that will give you a better impression of what they can do than we could ever tell you over the net. Just don't forget to take pictures.

Sounds like a fun idea. I'll use that logic on the wife and try it next spring.
I have two projects underway right now and I have to finish them before jumping to this project.

 

[shinnlinger]

Doc,

Mith is right, I bought a 40,000 lb JD 690 B with 7500 hours and a hydrolic thumb with recent tracks for $15grand. I was looking at celar hole, 500+feet of driveway, water, septic and electric lines and figured I would spend close to that hiring it done and maybe I would have something left to sell when I was done.

A buddy Of mine was an advocate of me buying a hoe for my tractor, but as you said it would have been 8 large installed and in my case it would have meant many hours on my 22 year old machine with a hoe that really isn't that great a digger with only a 7ft depth or so.

My buddy was so adamant I get a backhoe he lent me his 50 horse JD with a hoe and let me start my cellar. 8 hours later of jumping on and off between the cockpit and the hoe controls, and almost flipping the dang thing because it was raining and the tractor had damn industrial tires, I had done a small hole and it is true I could have done it after a few weeks or so but my logic was 15 large was twice the price but 10x the digger.

The first day I had it I went out and finished the 27x53x8 celler hole by lunch and I didn't even know what I was doing yet!

I have put about 150 hours on it now and in addition to doing the above I used to load logs (after an unexpected wind storm) did a pond for $$$ and de rocked some of my fields of fridge sized boulders so I don't destroy my mowers. Stuff I would have never done if I didn't own the machine.

Now I will say I could have a smaller machine, but the bigger rig is nice and I actually can get it hauled pretty easily if I need it to go somewhere. But for around the farm a 30ft reach is nice. BUt you will need to find some way to haul dirt. I made a dump trailer but then ended up with a '52 gmc dump truck to haul the spoils around...stuff begets stuff!

These rigs are hydrolic pumps on tracks too so you can run log spliters, frame straighteners or anything you dream of to boot off of one.

I would say a 10,000lb machine is what I would get if I had options

 

[shinnlinger]

Here is my not so mini excavator, for reference my wife is 6 feet tall, but as you can see it so simple anyone can run it...

Oh I also bought a pnuematic grease gun and it still takes 20 minutes to lube it up.

 

[Doc]

Thanks Shinn for the 3PH / excavator comparison. Exactly what I was hoping for. I had my doubts about the 3PH one and jumping from one seat to another seemed like it would be a real pain.

I'm excited about the excavator idea and I'm not near ready to put out the cash for one. I'll plan to rent one next spring but like you said 7ft reach would sure seem limiting and that is all most 3PH hoes will go.
I can't imagine 30' of reach. WOW. That would be GREAT.

Thanks for the 1st hand info.

Edit to add:
Shinn, your pic didn't show up.

 

[Dougster]

Thanks Shinn for the 3PH / excavator comparison. Exactly what I was hoping for. I had my doubts about the 3PH one and jumping from one seat to another seemed like it would be a real pain.

I'm excited about the excavator idea and I'm not near ready to put out the cash for one. I'll plan to rent one next spring but like you said 7ft reach would sure seem limiting and that is all most 3PH hoes will go.
I can't imagine 30' of reach. WOW. That would be GREAT.

Thanks for the 1st hand info.

Edit to add:
Shinn, your pic didn't show up.

If all you can get is a 3-point hitch mounted backhoe and not a frame mounted backhoe, your choice should be a very easy one!

Dougster

 

[shinnlinger]

That reminds me...The frame that the hoe mounts to can hang up in the woods. MAybe not an issue if you have industrial tires and only use your tractor to mow and plow the driveway.


I have never used one, but I have head the 3pt only hoes have very limited power and sideways ability.

Another argument for the mini ex is that if you have a hoe on the back of your tractor, you aren't going to want to change it to mow the lawn or york rake for an hour only to then have to switch it back. I'm sure it gets easier, but I bet it is at least a 20 minute swap. THe French teacher at my school has a littel kubota and he has never taken the hoe of his because he is afraid to and my buddy with the 50 horse jd rarely takes his hoe off.

 

[larryRB]

I have the 48 which the hoe comes on and off quite easy. Of course I am frequently doing this to use another implement, I know people with 3pt hoes and that's something even I wouldn't want to mess with,., I suppose like I said elsewhere, have the 48, another 5740 for strictly 3 pt use and probably a 161 excavator would cover my needs all the way around. We can dream can't we?

 

[Dougster]

That reminds me...The frame that the hoe mounts to can hang up in the woods. MAybe not an issue if you have industrial tires and only use your tractor to mow and plow the driveway.

I have never used one, but I have head the 3pt only hoes have very limited power and sideways ability.

Another argument for the mini ex is that if you have a hoe on the back of your tractor, you aren't going to want to change it to mow the lawn or york rake for an hour only to then have to switch it back. I'm sure it gets easier, but I bet it is at least a 20 minute swap. THe French teacher at my school has a littel kubota and he has never taken the hoe of his because he is afraid to and my buddy with the 50 horse jd rarely takes his hoe off.

Because this is a business for me, I remove and reinstall my 509 backhoe all the time. Mine is a frame mounted-type. You do get better at it, but it is always at least a minor pain (especially at a client's site). Still, I've not had it hang up on anything except the low point can hit the ground loading or unloading it from my now slightly-raised trailer. Takes a couple four foot 2x10's behind the ramp to prevent that from happening.

What I've heard from dealers I trust is that 3-point backhoes only work well in the smallest sizes... and even then there is an inherent element of danger. If you can buy a frame unit for your tractor, you should do so.

In regard to the two vs. one machine debate, it really depends if you wish to operate mobile or not. For single property use with no transport, two machines are almost always better than one assuming you can afford them. For work on remote sites, life gets more complicated. Even if I buy a mini-excavator, there will continue to be plenty of jobs that will still require the FEL on my tractor and possibly some 3-point implements as well. That means moving two machines to a remote jobsite rather than one, consuming mucho extra time... albeit possibly offsetting necessary use of the dump trailer for extra tractor attachments/implements. Then again, maybe not.

The point is that remote mobile operation can be a complicated issue, logistically speaking. Sometimes the tractor with FEL and BH (or a single 3-point implement) is all I need... and sometimes the mini-excavator may be all I will need... and that is great. But increasingly, a single machine configuration is not enough.

Dougster

 

[Dougster]

I have the 48 which the hoe comes on and off quite easy. Of course I am frequently doing this to use another implement, I know people with 3pt hoes and that's something even I wouldn't want to mess with,., I suppose like I said elsewhere, have the 48, another 5740 for strictly 3 pt use and probably a 161 excavator would cover my needs all the way around. We can dream can't we?

Well, YOU can dream. You've got all the space in the world! You could store hundreds of assorted machines out at your spacious lakefront resort!!!

But I can only afford to buy and store one more machine... and that's if I am lucky that the town does not come down on me hard!!! Hence the debate about what one additional machine could increase job range and revenue enough to justify its existance.

It's easier solving Rubik's Cube.

Dougster

 

[larryRB]

I was going to offer kubota to be their staging area and warehouse area for New England dealers with the stipulation that if I need a particular machine, I can use it and return it to storage until a dealer sells the piece,, What do you think my odds are trying this one?

 

[Dougster]

I was going to offer kubota to be their staging area and warehouse area for New England dealers with the stipulation that if I need a particular machine, I can use it and return it to storage until a dealer sells the piece,, What do you think my odds are trying this one?

Wouldn't surprise me at all to hear of you making arrangements with one or two large volume tractor dealers (who shall remain nameless) in regard to delivery or pre-positioning of a few machines or accessories for customers within the New England market. Your location is about as central and perfect as it gets for those dealers with customers but without a permanent presence here. How do you think I picked up my equipment trailer... purchased from a dealer in Tennessee... in Maryland?

But as for you using those nifty new machines???

Think again my friend!!!

Dougster

 

[Doc]

The business aspect does add some complication to the question of one machine or two. You might be able to stay competitive by renting an excavator only when you require one. Use your current set up for everything you can but rent when the excavator is needed and have it delivered to the job site. No maintenance or other upkeep fees. Sure worth checking into.

My tractor is on the small side for a 3PH hoe. I was not even considering those. It was frame mount or nothing. Now I've progressed to frame mount or mini excavator and I like the mine excavator idea. Paying for it is another issue that will come into play ....all I know for sure is that it is out of the question for now. In two years I'll reevaluate my situation and see if I can afford to pay for a mini. I would like to get it in the spring, keep it 6 months or a year then sell it. But, I won't do that unless I am prepared to sit on it for awhile in case it does not sell right off. I don't want to paint myself into a corner.

That is one BIG excavator you got there Shinn. WOW. I would love to put that to work.

 

[Dougster]

The business aspect does add some complication to the question of one machine or two. You might be able to stay competitive by renting an excavator only when you require one. Use your current set up for everything you can but rent when the excavator is needed and have it delivered to the job site. No maintenance or other upkeep fees. Sure worth checking into.

Yes, and it complicates a lot more than just the transport of equipment to jobsites. Once you enter the business realm, you are playing by the rules that your town, state, insurance company and the IRS have set forth for you. Some of these rules (particularly employee and tax-related rules) seriously distort what would otherwise appear to be a perfectly normal and sensible course of action. I could jump up on my soapbox and write on this topic for ages.

In regard to alternative equipment rentals; as a one-person business, I'm finding that I am almost always better off to subcontract rather than rent. The exception to this is replacement equipment for my own Mahindra should it ever breakdown in some serious way and leave a job unfinished. For that reason, I am always keenly aware of the nearest place where I can rent a suitable, transportable TLB should the need arise.

Dougster