New Rear U Joints Needed-- Again

[bordercollie]

Glad to help Banjo. In my computer 's picture library, You can look at the pictures and right click on the one you want to turn. On my computer, this right click list some options in a drop down box and one is to rotate the picture. Just do the rotating before you browse from the forum. Or it will not use the rotated picture.
Good job on your progress ! collie

 

[banjo]

I ordered the u joints from ebay last night. Going with the Precision 397. Got two for under $20.00 shipping an all from one vendor and then ordered two more for just under $16.00 each....I got the other axle out just a little bit ago. What a pain...Probably will take Collie's advice and change the seals. Going back to work tomorrow so this may take a while. Banjo

 

[Fitch]

I've read and studied this thread from end to end. I've enjoyed it and learned a lot.

Based on ZZZ's measurements and reported replacement joint performance, when the time comes, and I expect it will in another 500 to 1,000 hours (I'm at 2,020 now on my '04), I'm going to spend the money to get the Kubota U-Joints.

In cases where the use of the RTV hasn't change one bit, the original U-joints lasted from 1,000 to 3,000 or more hours. Replacements with other than Kubota joints last a quarter to a half as long.

On Collie's '05 machine, if I understand it right, the first time the joints were replaced it was at a Kubota dealer, the dealer didn't do a particularly good job, and the new joints lasted nearly ~1,800 hours - or about as long as the factory new joints.

Others on here are doing an excellent job of workmanship with non-Kubota parts and they don't last half, or sometimes even a quarter, that long.

There's a message, at least for me, in that data. Unfortunately, if one has ground the yokes to use after market parts with a wider clip spread, there is probably no going back to stock parts.

YMMV.

Fitch

 

[banjo]

I am certainly not trying to get anyone to follow my example in any shape form or fashion, but in this case, I feel that the original parts were not something to hold up as a stellar example to shoot for as I didn't get the 1000 to 3000 hours of use that you speak of. Three of the four rear joints are shot at 930 hours. Banjo

 

[Fitch]

I am certainly not trying to get anyone to follow my example in any shape form or fashion, but in this case, I feel that the original parts were not something to hold up as a stellar example to shoot for as I didn't get the 1000 to 3000 hours of use that you speak of. Three of the four rear joints are shot at 930 hours. Banjo

I'm not going to argue. I read the thread, drew my conclusion. You draw yours.

Fitch

 

[banjo]

My conclusion is : I have just about got it done, and I saved a lot of I would like to know what a Kubota dealer would charge for replacing those u joints and the other stuff that goes with it. I got the seals from Kubota and two new boots. ($72...and change) I zip tied them on like Mark did. I made me a lift for the jack like one of you fine folks told about. All I did was fine a deep wield socket that would fit in the hole where the lift plate for the jack goes...and wielded a piece of angle iron to it...didn't have any 1 1/4 square stock that I could spare....The angle was too big so I ground it down with the side grinder...I did have to put a counterweight on the jack handle to keep it balanced...One tip I would pass on is put that little rubber stopper in the small axel coming out of the tranny before you put that u joint together.....Fluid goes in tomorrow afternoon....I bought one new sealed bearing and just like Collie...I was upset with the quality hope it at least last as long as the old ones that I put back in....Banjo

 

[bordercollie]

Good job Banjo. And just to make sure, you put sealant on the place where the inner meets the transmission? just making sure . ( those boot clips can be found at many auto parts stores too, and you can put them on with pliers so no fancy tool is really necessary.
Talking about money and cost of this..... It depends on your dealer and how they treat folks... the local dealer told me - if I remember right... . right at a grand for both sides.... yep, it shouldn't be that much because .. they doubled the price of doing one side to count the other.. even though the hardest part of the job is disassembly/assembly which is done be it one or both sides -...the whole tube thing has to come off be it one or both.They didn't know I knew that.. Obviously I said no way- It should have been about 2/3 of that price at the dealer (back then) or even less... I guess that shop pricing " feller" thought I was a city slicker.. haha.. I still am thanking Two Guns for steering me right with that and encouraging me to do the job..

 

[pop58]

Well done.
You didn't just save money, you/we learned something. And every time some decides to tackle a job them self and shares that with everyone here it might help save someone money in the future.
Thanks.

 

[Mark.Sibole]

Boot strips = heavy duty zip ties they work just as well and easier to install and if you make a boo boo ts easily fixable. Cograts on a good job.Looks like you dod your research from the ones who had done this a lot of times.Now when you get as good as me you can get the whole job dont in less that 2 hours ny yourself.As for the joints the 397s always worked fine for me but i did change up on the last set just as a trial.I have probably gone through more joints here than anyone but its more my fault for them going out and not the joints fault.I do have a tendency to work my machine a lot harder than intended.Having MS I use it for everything here.Under normal circumstances and heavier use i know they will last longer but i do like i said have a tendency to over tug on stuff.The failier comes from 2 things during my research in this over the years.Main design flaw if the drastic angle of the joints.Way to much expected from them for the angle they sit on.THe inner joints are severe IMO and have been changed a few times here.The outter joints are still original and in good shape as well as bearings and seals.THe other thing that kills them is the non stop tugging i do with it.When you snatch a 50 foot lof at 12 to 18 inches in diameter (thats a hell of a lot of weight) and tug on it to skid it out can be tough on a joint. Hang the log up and then back up a bit and get a running snatch start is hell on a joint.When you spin or move something then it comes to a sudden stop something is bound to give out. The joint is the weakest link in the system.Im sure a CV joint would hold up longer but also more expensive.ght design change and lowered the axle holes from the trans to the rear wheels eliminating a lot of the angle would relieve a lot of stress in the system.But thats another story for a later time.
IN all im saying under normal usage any of the replacement joints will work fine and last.You just cant take the running starts skidding and have the machine come to that sudden stop putting thousands of foot pounds of pressure on them joints plain and simple.But I do what I have to do cause i work by myself and its a ttal back saver for me.I remember way back in the day when i has a suzuki king quad wioth basically the same setup I did one modification to it when i broke a joint on the back.It was set up like the Kubots was in the rear. I had a friend who worked for 3 m that made basically boots like the ones that are on the slip joint. I got a few from him to play with and took them and added boots right over the whole u joint assembly thus covering the whole joint and packed that puppy full of grease and zip tied it on there. Almost looked like a cv joint when i was done.It kept the water and dirt out of the joint completely and made them last a hell of a lot longer.This summer when i finish up the tractor project im going to look into one of the aftermarket bolt on cv joint boot covers and see if i can do the same on the RTV and cover the whole yoke and wee what happens.sorry got getting long winded lol im waiting for pain pills to kick in and i feel like living hell already and have a tendency to ramble a bit.JUst remember try not to work the hell out of the joints buy tugging like I do and im sure your new joints will last a good long time. It seems replacement joints never last as long as oem originals no mater whay they are on. Ive seen car u joints last forever but change them one time you only get a fraction of the use out of them before replcement. OK back is killing me and my head is thumping so ill wuit here.
Again great job on the fix.I know you learned a lot and the next time the job will be a lot easier trust me.
Stay safe and enjoy the fix.Im proud of you for doing the job yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Regards

Mark

 

[banjo]

I put the ujoint that goes to the front wheel drive in today...It was the one I started out to do before the holidays. The one right in front of the carrier bearing. I have already had to replace it once before. All the others on that drive line are still good. Wonder why it is problematic? Any ways thanks for all the help I received here, seems like a good bunch of folks, and I intend to stick around here. I took lots of pictures as I was taking the bumper off and working on the u joints, and I am glad I did. When I got through putting the bumper back on I noticed that I had 8 nuts left over....went back through my pictures and saw that they were the nuts that went on top of the nuts that holds the bumper to the springs....sort of a lock nut I would call it....Thanks again ... Banjo

 

[bordercollie]

I do that too. Pictures are worth a thousand words and save a lot of heartache. Dealing with parts anyway. Is your carrier bearing the original? I replaced mine on the '05, I think 2x. expensive booger too... anyrate,I'm glad it went good for you Banjo . Glad you are here with us on the best RTV forum on earth collie

 

[banjo]

Yes its the original, but it seemed to be fine. I was going to do a mod. on the front drive shaft that I had seen were a man named Eddie C. had posted some stuff. I did drill out the yoke and taped it for set screws instead of the pin that it had. But I wasn't too sure of being able to get it all back together with the other parts he listed...mine don't rattle like he described his anyway....Banjo

 

[bordercollie]

I did that to my '05 's shaft, for the most part , banjo . Its was called the cornjo (sp) fix . It used a piece of heater hose ,washers and set screw.. sounds like your situation maybe. Have a great evening and glad it worked out for you.

 

[Fitch]

When the same U-joint went out on my '04 at around 1,200 hours, and the carrier bearing went with it, I installed the Kubota upgrade to the 1 piece drive shaft like the newer models have. It was clearly a better design and it wasn't a difficult modification. The kit is pretty complete. I'm at 2,030 hours now and it seems to be doing fine.

 

[banjo]

I will probably go that route when the carrier goes. Would you mind if I asked what they charged for the upgrade kit? If you would rather not say, I understand. Banjo

 

[Fitch]

I will probably go that route when the carrier goes. Would you mind if I asked what they charged for the upgrade kit? If you would rather not say, I understand. Banjo

I'd be happy to tell you but I don't remember exactly. It was expensive, but by the time I priced the parts to do the repair I thought I 'should' do on the two piece drive shaft (rebuild all the U-joints and replace the center bearing to avoid a winter breakdown when the RTV is needed every day, twice a day) it was only about $75.00 to $100.00 more.

In addition to reducing the number of U-joints in half, the one piece shaft kit was a major design improvement because it provided for lubricating and protecting the splines on the output shaft from the transmission and the input to the front differential. They were starting to show the effects of moisture and abrasion from grit. I did not want to have to replace those - the cost would dwarf the cost of the upgraded shaft. But we live in the South Pennsylvania Mud Belt and keeping them clean was a practical impossibility.

We plan to keep the RTV until we are too old and crippled to climb in the seat and turn the wheel, so the upgrade seemed like a no-brainer after I thought about it for a few minutes. By think about it, I mean I sat down with a cup of coffee, pen and paper, listed the options, plusses and minuses and cost of each, discussed it with my wife, and made a decision. (I'm an engineer. It's what I do. I'm retired but old habits die hard.)

Fitch

 

[bordercollie]

I agree the new design is much improvement for someone that uses the RTV a lot. The new design has the rubber boots on each end and as of yet at over 2,000 hrs , I have no play in mine. I was first worried about the rubber boots being an easy target for sticks and those lemon tree bushes with the gigantic thorns, but so far so good...
Just call Messick's equipment they can give you a price delivered to your door. collie

edit to include http://www.nettractortalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=113747#post113747 discussion on new shaft when it first came out

 

[Mark.Sibole]

I had 3 brand new joints down in the garage sitting on the shelf. Do you think I can find them now that i need one of them?
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr I hate when things grow legs and wonder off by them selves!

 

[muleman RIP]

I had 3 brand new joints down in the garage sitting on the shelf. Do you think I can find them now that i need one of them?
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr I hate when things grow legs and wonder off by them selves!

Dang! Must have been some good stuff if you lost 3 joints....I have been hunting for a whole case of old metal electrical boxes for 6 weeks now.

 

[Mark.Sibole]

LOL Well i found them after a few hours of looking.They jumped in a box and went in the cupboard.Must have been looking for a place to keep warm.