RTV 900 fuel adjustment
- Thread starter Kubotatech
- Start date
[quote user="07rhino"]</p>
[quote user="Charles"]</p>
I don't always get home before dark, and I thought a video would go
a mile where my text would only go an inch here, so I shot a video even
though it was dark. I realize it is of poor visual quality, but I
think it should suffice to show the fact that it wasn't moving and the
engine was revving and getting pulled down but no spinning or moving,
just noise and heat.</p>
If it's needed, I'll try and take another video in the daylight if I have a chance.</p>
</p>
Also, 07Rhino. My email account has likely changed since I first
registered on this site. I'll check to see if I can edit it, if not,
just post the information on the forum for now if that's acceptable. </p>
And Thanks.</p>
[/quote]</p>
</p>
Just click on the contact to the top right of this box and email me with your new email</p>
</p>
Watching your video does it do it in med/high as well going forward,
if all is well foreward you might have a faulty reverse relief valve.
But we can test that when you get set up to start checking pressures.</p>
</p>
[/quote]</p>
</p>
</p>
I suppose that was where I originally messed everything up. When I explicitly followed your instructions.</p>
</p>
And if the "nose/face" comment was aimed in my direction, you should
know that I was/am not spiting you. The "information" you claim, is
simply not worth the struggle to overcome your communication barrier.
Your last post represents one of probably 4 or 5 or so where you
could have placed pertinent information to the thread topic in
the hands of those seeking it. Yet you continually choose not to. And
if the above, bolded instructions are any indication as to your ability
to provide clear and concise explanation, then it would seem that you
may have communication issues that reach beyond merely choosing the
correct form of communication. As now it would seem you may have
actually intended for me to use "start conversation" not "email".</p>
</p>
Also, if you will notice, nearly 100% of those having tried, have
failed to communicate with others on the site using the "contact" tab.
And precisely as was the case for myself, they had no
indication that things went astray, and just assumed the receiving
party hadn't chosen to respond yet, or ever in some cases.</p>
Lastly, it's not "spiteful" when the reality is that spending a few
hours with a workshop manual and some simple reverse engineering will
likely be much more straight forward than attempting to aquire similar
information from you has proven thus far. From what I've seen it may simply be more practical to go figure it out for myself. No spite intended. </p>
[quote user="Charles"]</p>
I don't always get home before dark, and I thought a video would go
a mile where my text would only go an inch here, so I shot a video even
though it was dark. I realize it is of poor visual quality, but I
think it should suffice to show the fact that it wasn't moving and the
engine was revving and getting pulled down but no spinning or moving,
just noise and heat.</p>
If it's needed, I'll try and take another video in the daylight if I have a chance.</p>
</p>
Also, 07Rhino. My email account has likely changed since I first
registered on this site. I'll check to see if I can edit it, if not,
just post the information on the forum for now if that's acceptable. </p>
And Thanks.</p>
[/quote]</p>
</p>
Just click on the contact to the top right of this box and email me with your new email</p>
</p>
Watching your video does it do it in med/high as well going forward,
if all is well foreward you might have a faulty reverse relief valve.
But we can test that when you get set up to start checking pressures.</p>
</p>
[/quote]</p>
</p>
</p>
I suppose that was where I originally messed everything up. When I explicitly followed your instructions.</p>
</p>
And if the "nose/face" comment was aimed in my direction, you should
know that I was/am not spiting you. The "information" you claim, is
simply not worth the struggle to overcome your communication barrier.
Your last post represents one of probably 4 or 5 or so where you
could have placed pertinent information to the thread topic in
the hands of those seeking it. Yet you continually choose not to. And
if the above, bolded instructions are any indication as to your ability
to provide clear and concise explanation, then it would seem that you
may have communication issues that reach beyond merely choosing the
correct form of communication. As now it would seem you may have
actually intended for me to use "start conversation" not "email".</p>
</p>
Also, if you will notice, nearly 100% of those having tried, have
failed to communicate with others on the site using the "contact" tab.
And precisely as was the case for myself, they had no
indication that things went astray, and just assumed the receiving
party hadn't chosen to respond yet, or ever in some cases.</p>
Lastly, it's not "spiteful" when the reality is that spending a few
hours with a workshop manual and some simple reverse engineering will
likely be much more straight forward than attempting to aquire similar
information from you has proven thus far. From what I've seen it may simply be more practical to go figure it out for myself. No spite intended. </p>
Well, I found a sweet dealership near my new house. It's the biggest Kubota dealer I've ever seen.</p>
</p>
Anyway, I had a chance to talk to a very knowledgeable tech in the back for a half hour or so yesterday about these things, and general concept and such. He grabbed a whole box of old throw-away hydrostatic units and wrangled up all the parts and showed me how it goes together. It didn't take long to see how it works. It is simply an axial piston pump that is driven by the engine directly at all times. The swash plate is varied directly by the lever you see sticking out the top of the hydro unit, that the linkage is attached to. Rotation one way takes the swashplate off of 0 degrees in the forward direction (direction the linkage moves it) and the pistons begin flowing fluid into the other rotating group right adjacent to the pump, which is the motor. This is directly linked to the trans via a shaft from the rear back up to the trans that holds the 3 forward and one reverse ratio you select on the dash.</p>
</p>
Soooo?</p>
</p>
Here's my tentative plan.... I'm going to see about having the throttle pedal do nothing but throttle the engine directly. No more sloppy pedal, no more sluggishness and all that. You would then be able to "pop" the throttle if you wished (improvement: Response).</p>
</p>
So then, I will then have an electric servo capable of around 50in/lbs of force mounted on the rear of the hydro unit to operate the swashplate lever. It should be sufficient. If not I will regroup and pick another servo. Anyway, it can pull the hydro for me. The main reasons this is important:</p>
</p>
1. The throttle and hydro would no longer be directly linked. For instance, I could have a speed sensor on the engine and have a processor control the hydro based on engine rpm. Such that full throttle the processor would operate the hydro in such a way that peak engine power rpm was maintaned..... (wow.... how it should be). </p>
2. Since the pedal is no longer directly linked to the hydro.... you can then have the hydrostatic unit operate in forward AND reverse. Hence.... the lack of need for an actual reverse GEAR in the trans. By placing an electric switch (like you find on backhoes and similar vehicles with a shuttle trans) on the steering column, I could switch from forward to reverse and the only thing to change would be the servo pushing the lever rearward based on pedal movement, instead of pulling it forward as it does now. In this way the RTV becomes a shuttle shift vehicle, with reverse possible in any range. And speaking of ranges.... the dash shifted trans gears now simply become ranges, but do not require in and out, in and out over and over just to go forward and reverse (99% of all shifting). For instance, on flat ground my machine stays in "M" most of the time. Well, assuming a properly working hydro unit... it would never come out of "M" except for cranking, because I would shuttle the forward/reverse function just like on a backhoe or similar equipment with a shuttle lever.</p>
3. Another usefull tidbit I found, was a port that controls backpressure that is formed when the motor is actually driving the pressure instead of the piston pump driving the motor..... as is the case when you are decelerating and the hydro wants to throw you through the windsheild if you're not careful.... Well? That's controlled by a pressure regulator just like all the other pressures. Simply adjust the pressure down low enough and it merely coasts to a stop nice and slow like any other vehicle...</p>
</p>
</p>
Anyway... as time permits I'm gong to be doing some experimentation, and I think one helluva good little machine will come out of it. I got all the info I will ever need about the hydrostatic unit in about a half hour yesterday. Great guys.</p>
</p>
Don't know when I'll have time to mess with it, but when I do, I'll keep you guys posted.</p>
</p>
Anyway, I had a chance to talk to a very knowledgeable tech in the back for a half hour or so yesterday about these things, and general concept and such. He grabbed a whole box of old throw-away hydrostatic units and wrangled up all the parts and showed me how it goes together. It didn't take long to see how it works. It is simply an axial piston pump that is driven by the engine directly at all times. The swash plate is varied directly by the lever you see sticking out the top of the hydro unit, that the linkage is attached to. Rotation one way takes the swashplate off of 0 degrees in the forward direction (direction the linkage moves it) and the pistons begin flowing fluid into the other rotating group right adjacent to the pump, which is the motor. This is directly linked to the trans via a shaft from the rear back up to the trans that holds the 3 forward and one reverse ratio you select on the dash.</p>
</p>
Soooo?</p>
</p>
Here's my tentative plan.... I'm going to see about having the throttle pedal do nothing but throttle the engine directly. No more sloppy pedal, no more sluggishness and all that. You would then be able to "pop" the throttle if you wished (improvement: Response).</p>
</p>
So then, I will then have an electric servo capable of around 50in/lbs of force mounted on the rear of the hydro unit to operate the swashplate lever. It should be sufficient. If not I will regroup and pick another servo. Anyway, it can pull the hydro for me. The main reasons this is important:</p>
</p>
1. The throttle and hydro would no longer be directly linked. For instance, I could have a speed sensor on the engine and have a processor control the hydro based on engine rpm. Such that full throttle the processor would operate the hydro in such a way that peak engine power rpm was maintaned..... (wow.... how it should be). </p>
2. Since the pedal is no longer directly linked to the hydro.... you can then have the hydrostatic unit operate in forward AND reverse. Hence.... the lack of need for an actual reverse GEAR in the trans. By placing an electric switch (like you find on backhoes and similar vehicles with a shuttle trans) on the steering column, I could switch from forward to reverse and the only thing to change would be the servo pushing the lever rearward based on pedal movement, instead of pulling it forward as it does now. In this way the RTV becomes a shuttle shift vehicle, with reverse possible in any range. And speaking of ranges.... the dash shifted trans gears now simply become ranges, but do not require in and out, in and out over and over just to go forward and reverse (99% of all shifting). For instance, on flat ground my machine stays in "M" most of the time. Well, assuming a properly working hydro unit... it would never come out of "M" except for cranking, because I would shuttle the forward/reverse function just like on a backhoe or similar equipment with a shuttle lever.</p>
3. Another usefull tidbit I found, was a port that controls backpressure that is formed when the motor is actually driving the pressure instead of the piston pump driving the motor..... as is the case when you are decelerating and the hydro wants to throw you through the windsheild if you're not careful.... Well? That's controlled by a pressure regulator just like all the other pressures. Simply adjust the pressure down low enough and it merely coasts to a stop nice and slow like any other vehicle...</p>
</p>
</p>
Anyway... as time permits I'm gong to be doing some experimentation, and I think one helluva good little machine will come out of it. I got all the info I will ever need about the hydrostatic unit in about a half hour yesterday. Great guys.</p>
</p>
Don't know when I'll have time to mess with it, but when I do, I'll keep you guys posted.</p>
Kubota Kanook
Member
Charles...interesting post..I'm particularly interested in your shuttle shifting idea..I like the idea of being able to reverse direction without the shifter..I sometime need to turn off the engine in order to get the thing out of gear, start again and then shift into the direction I want to go. ....Cumbersome to say the least when operating a snow plow. Let us know how it goes.</p>
zenchal26
Member
<span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 10pt;">The entire sticky shift problem is most likely due to cable stretch. My 4wd lever was sticking a bit I adjusted the cable smooth as silk. I will let you know for sure as I'm going to adjust my shift cables tomorrow. I adjusted my throttle and hydro cables the other day and she picked up some power and speed.</span></p>
Kubota Kanook
Member
Zencahl26...Yes curious if you see an improvement..I have the adjustment proceedures (courteous of Bordercollie).</p>
Charles..From what you were able to glean from your visit with the bota guy...Are you saying that the lever on top of the hydro if it were able to travel in the reverse direction (it can't now because of the linkage) would allow reversing like on a hydro tractor? If so this opens up some interesting possibilities. I'm not familiar with the internal workings of the unit but I'm willing to experiment as long as I understand the likely consequences.</p>
I installed the hand throttle a while back..Like BCzoom says..its a piece of cake to accomplish.</p>
Charles..From what you were able to glean from your visit with the bota guy...Are you saying that the lever on top of the hydro if it were able to travel in the reverse direction (it can't now because of the linkage) would allow reversing like on a hydro tractor? If so this opens up some interesting possibilities. I'm not familiar with the internal workings of the unit but I'm willing to experiment as long as I understand the likely consequences.</p>
I installed the hand throttle a while back..Like BCzoom says..its a piece of cake to accomplish.</p>
[quote user="Kubota Kanook"]</p>
Zencahl26...Yes curious if you see an improvement..I have the adjustment proceedures (courteous of Bordercollie).</p>
Charles..From what you were able to glean from your visit with the bota guy...Are you saying that the lever on top of the hydro if it were able to travel in the reverse direction (it can't now because of the linkage) would allow reversing like on a hydro tractor? If so this opens up some interesting possibilities. I'm not familiar with the internal workings of the unit but I'm willing to experiment as long as I understand the likely consequences.</p>
I installed the hand throttle a while back..Like BCzoom says..its a piece of cake to accomplish.</p>
<div style="clear: both;"></div>
[/quote]</p>
</p>
</p>
Absolutely. After I saw the components in place inside the unit it was immediately clear that my suspisions were correct. The way the unit works is that the engine drives the pump rotating group in the hydro unit. Which is nothing more than an axial piston pump. If you aren't familiar with piston pumps, imagine a revolver, and just substitute pistons for bullets. Now imagine the pistons are spring loaded such that they want to "pop" out of their bores if not held in place by something covering the end opposing the spring. What holds them in place? You guessed it, the swashplate. (I am assuming the rest of this paragraph based on previous experience with piston pumps, so if small detail isn't correct, the concept will be) These pistons have little "feet" that slide on the swashplate as the body (revolver) rotates. As long as the plate remain perfectly perpendicular to the axis of the body the pistons simply slide along and remain stationary in their bores. This is what is occuring when you're foot is not touching the pedal and the vehicle is stationary (lever on top of hydro unit is at rest, assuming it is adjusted properly such that the vehicle does not "creep" in either direction when at "rest"). </p>
So what happens when you push down on the pedal (aside from a the engine receiving "throttle" input) is that the lever on the hydro unit is pulled forward, (counter-clockwise when viewed from above). Since this lever is directly attached to the swashplate, the result is that the swashplate is no longer perpendicular to the pump body (0 degrees), it is now at some angle proportionate to the degree of movement the lever has traveled (as was dictated by your foot, via cable linkage). This angle produces a situation where at one point in a given revolution the spring behind the piston will force it toward the other end of it's bore, as the foot rides on the swashplate that due to the angle is now farther and farther from the end of the bore. Then as the body continues to rotate the piston will pass the point where the plate is farthest from the body and continued rotation will begin to stroke the piston back down the bore as the plate is now closer and closer to the bore as the body rotates relative to the stationary plate. This cycle is what strokes the pistons up and down their bores. The angle of the swashplate in conjunction with the diameter of the bore spacing on the pump body determines this stroke.</p>
Now..... all this back and forth movement wouldn't do a thing except agitate the fluid if not for the porting. Much like a comutator on an electric motor has a break between sides, so does the port plate on a piston pump. You will see two semi-circular ports (two half circles) that comes close to, but to not touch. They are not common to one another. These are positioned such that each end of the semicircles is nearest the points of "TDC" and "BDC" for the piston strokes based on plate movement. In other words, since the swashplate hinges on a vertical axis, if you viewed the pump from the rear of the machine (looking straight down it's axis) and assumed 360 degrees with the top quadrant being 90*, bottom quadrant being 270*, one semicircular port might span left to right (clockwise) from say 170* to say 10*, while the other might span left to right (counterclockwise) from say 190* to say 350*. Notice that that would leave a 20* gap between ports. That is the break between "inlet" and "outlet" conditions.</p>
</p>
Now when the swashplate is neutral (0 degrees) the pistons are stationary in their bores, although still rotating with the engine. But since they are not stroking back and forth, they are not displacing any fluid. Now when you begin to pull on the lever, altering the swashplate angle off 0 degrees, the pistons will begin to stroke in and out on every revolution. As they do this, fluid will be drawn in through one half of the revolution, and fluid will be ejected throughout the second half of every revolution. As this is happening, the fluid will be entering and leaving through these two semicircular ports. Which is inlet, and which is outlet is determined by the direction the swashplate is altered from neutral. Begin angling it in one direction and one port will be inlet, the other outlet, Bring it back to 0* and no fluid is flowing. Then push the swashplate in the opposite direction and the inlet and outlet ports will flip-flop. In becomes out and out becomes in. And the fluid will flow opposite as well obviously.</p>
</p>
So..... if you push the lever in the opposite direction, it will most certainly reverse the fluid flow through the hydrostatic motor. Speaking of which.....</p>
</p>
You have shaft power coming into the unit driving the piston pump rotating group. But you also have shaft power leaving the unit producing the output torque that eventually makes it's way down to the axleshafts via the gears in the 3 forward/1 reverse trans and ultimately rotating the drive wheels and propelling the vehicle. This hydraulic motor rides in the same case with the piston pump, directly adjacent to it. The input shaft and output shaft are separated by only a few inches. The inlet/outlet ports of the piston pump are common with the inlet/outlet ports on the drive motor. So as the pump begins displacing fluid in one direction or the other, the motor must also move in the same direction, or something will rupture. Obvioiusly that will not happen, as the unit has multiple pressure relief valves in place to control maximum pressures in various circuits. But the concept is..... the pump starts moving fluid, and the motor starts spinning the output shaft driving vehicle's wheels.</p>
</p>
The direction the drive motor rotates is determined by the direction of fluid flow, which is determined by the direction the swashplate is canted relative to the pump body, which in our case, is determined by the direction you rotate the little lever on top of the hydrostatic unit at the rear of the machine.</p>
</p>
Fwiw, simply pushing it in reverse (clockwise when viewed from above) will not necessarily produce favorable results right from the get-go. There is no assurance that the separate relief valves for forward/reverse are set equivalently in the unit. If the reverse valves are set low.... the machine will not be able to produce much output torque due to low pressure between the pump and motor. But..... from what I saw, ALL of this is fully adjustable and can be made to do just about anything you want, as long as the unit is physically capable of it.</p>
</p>
</p>
After reading my own writing I realize it lacks a lot of what a diagram would reveal. Try this:</p>
</p>
</p>
</p>
</p>
Zencahl26...Yes curious if you see an improvement..I have the adjustment proceedures (courteous of Bordercollie).</p>
Charles..From what you were able to glean from your visit with the bota guy...Are you saying that the lever on top of the hydro if it were able to travel in the reverse direction (it can't now because of the linkage) would allow reversing like on a hydro tractor? If so this opens up some interesting possibilities. I'm not familiar with the internal workings of the unit but I'm willing to experiment as long as I understand the likely consequences.</p>
I installed the hand throttle a while back..Like BCzoom says..its a piece of cake to accomplish.</p>
<div style="clear: both;"></div>
[/quote]</p>
</p>
</p>
Absolutely. After I saw the components in place inside the unit it was immediately clear that my suspisions were correct. The way the unit works is that the engine drives the pump rotating group in the hydro unit. Which is nothing more than an axial piston pump. If you aren't familiar with piston pumps, imagine a revolver, and just substitute pistons for bullets. Now imagine the pistons are spring loaded such that they want to "pop" out of their bores if not held in place by something covering the end opposing the spring. What holds them in place? You guessed it, the swashplate. (I am assuming the rest of this paragraph based on previous experience with piston pumps, so if small detail isn't correct, the concept will be) These pistons have little "feet" that slide on the swashplate as the body (revolver) rotates. As long as the plate remain perfectly perpendicular to the axis of the body the pistons simply slide along and remain stationary in their bores. This is what is occuring when you're foot is not touching the pedal and the vehicle is stationary (lever on top of hydro unit is at rest, assuming it is adjusted properly such that the vehicle does not "creep" in either direction when at "rest"). </p>
So what happens when you push down on the pedal (aside from a the engine receiving "throttle" input) is that the lever on the hydro unit is pulled forward, (counter-clockwise when viewed from above). Since this lever is directly attached to the swashplate, the result is that the swashplate is no longer perpendicular to the pump body (0 degrees), it is now at some angle proportionate to the degree of movement the lever has traveled (as was dictated by your foot, via cable linkage). This angle produces a situation where at one point in a given revolution the spring behind the piston will force it toward the other end of it's bore, as the foot rides on the swashplate that due to the angle is now farther and farther from the end of the bore. Then as the body continues to rotate the piston will pass the point where the plate is farthest from the body and continued rotation will begin to stroke the piston back down the bore as the plate is now closer and closer to the bore as the body rotates relative to the stationary plate. This cycle is what strokes the pistons up and down their bores. The angle of the swashplate in conjunction with the diameter of the bore spacing on the pump body determines this stroke.</p>
Now..... all this back and forth movement wouldn't do a thing except agitate the fluid if not for the porting. Much like a comutator on an electric motor has a break between sides, so does the port plate on a piston pump. You will see two semi-circular ports (two half circles) that comes close to, but to not touch. They are not common to one another. These are positioned such that each end of the semicircles is nearest the points of "TDC" and "BDC" for the piston strokes based on plate movement. In other words, since the swashplate hinges on a vertical axis, if you viewed the pump from the rear of the machine (looking straight down it's axis) and assumed 360 degrees with the top quadrant being 90*, bottom quadrant being 270*, one semicircular port might span left to right (clockwise) from say 170* to say 10*, while the other might span left to right (counterclockwise) from say 190* to say 350*. Notice that that would leave a 20* gap between ports. That is the break between "inlet" and "outlet" conditions.</p>
</p>
Now when the swashplate is neutral (0 degrees) the pistons are stationary in their bores, although still rotating with the engine. But since they are not stroking back and forth, they are not displacing any fluid. Now when you begin to pull on the lever, altering the swashplate angle off 0 degrees, the pistons will begin to stroke in and out on every revolution. As they do this, fluid will be drawn in through one half of the revolution, and fluid will be ejected throughout the second half of every revolution. As this is happening, the fluid will be entering and leaving through these two semicircular ports. Which is inlet, and which is outlet is determined by the direction the swashplate is altered from neutral. Begin angling it in one direction and one port will be inlet, the other outlet, Bring it back to 0* and no fluid is flowing. Then push the swashplate in the opposite direction and the inlet and outlet ports will flip-flop. In becomes out and out becomes in. And the fluid will flow opposite as well obviously.</p>
</p>
So..... if you push the lever in the opposite direction, it will most certainly reverse the fluid flow through the hydrostatic motor. Speaking of which.....</p>
</p>
You have shaft power coming into the unit driving the piston pump rotating group. But you also have shaft power leaving the unit producing the output torque that eventually makes it's way down to the axleshafts via the gears in the 3 forward/1 reverse trans and ultimately rotating the drive wheels and propelling the vehicle. This hydraulic motor rides in the same case with the piston pump, directly adjacent to it. The input shaft and output shaft are separated by only a few inches. The inlet/outlet ports of the piston pump are common with the inlet/outlet ports on the drive motor. So as the pump begins displacing fluid in one direction or the other, the motor must also move in the same direction, or something will rupture. Obvioiusly that will not happen, as the unit has multiple pressure relief valves in place to control maximum pressures in various circuits. But the concept is..... the pump starts moving fluid, and the motor starts spinning the output shaft driving vehicle's wheels.</p>
</p>
The direction the drive motor rotates is determined by the direction of fluid flow, which is determined by the direction the swashplate is canted relative to the pump body, which in our case, is determined by the direction you rotate the little lever on top of the hydrostatic unit at the rear of the machine.</p>
</p>
Fwiw, simply pushing it in reverse (clockwise when viewed from above) will not necessarily produce favorable results right from the get-go. There is no assurance that the separate relief valves for forward/reverse are set equivalently in the unit. If the reverse valves are set low.... the machine will not be able to produce much output torque due to low pressure between the pump and motor. But..... from what I saw, ALL of this is fully adjustable and can be made to do just about anything you want, as long as the unit is physically capable of it.</p>
</p>
</p>
After reading my own writing I realize it lacks a lot of what a diagram would reveal. Try this:</p>
</p>
</p>
</p>
Kubota Kanook
Member
Charles...........Thank you for the excellent crash course on the basics of how the pump works. Good diagram . I notice on my machine that the lever is prevented from rotating beyond its "home" position by the cam stop (my layman term) on the spring loaded return lever. In my case if I could simply apply a little reverse direction via a separate pedal/lever, I'd be happy. </p>
Keep up the posting ....this is neat stuff..</p>
Keep up the posting ....this is neat stuff..</p>
[quote user="Kubota Kanook"]</p>
Charles...........Thank you for the excellent crash course on the basics of how the pump works. Good diagram . I notice on my machine that the lever is prevented from rotating beyond its "home" position by the cam stop (my layman term) on the spring loaded return lever. In my case if I could simply apply a little reverse direction via a separate pedal/lever, I'd be happy. </p>
Keep up the posting ....this is neat stuff..</p>
<div style="clear: both;"></div>
[/quote]</p>
</p>
Imagine if the RTV had a shuttle shift lever and coasted to a stop if you completely lifted off the pedal....</p>
</p>
Those two things alone would be worth a lot of capability/driveability. Anyone that has never fought to get the machine out of forward, then into reverse, or out of reverse and back into forward hasn't driven one much, or doesn't work it hard. That, or there was a MAJOR design change somewhere along the way.</p>
A shuttle would be NICE! And it seems like it would be SO easy to do. I started looking up shift mechanisms today, as well as checking out some actuators/servos in case my currently sourced model isn't up to the task.</p>
</p>
I may take the bed off and run a temprary rod to the lever so that the hydro is not connected to the pedal and I can adjust it with my hand, forward and backward as I see fit sometime soon.</p>
I would be playing with this stuff already if I could locate my damned workshop manual I bought when I replaced the CV shaft.</p>
Knowing how it works gives me hope that I can make it do much more than it does currently. And if it breaks the motor shaft/blows the case or something, a stronger replacement would just be a CNC mill away.</p>
Charles...........Thank you for the excellent crash course on the basics of how the pump works. Good diagram . I notice on my machine that the lever is prevented from rotating beyond its "home" position by the cam stop (my layman term) on the spring loaded return lever. In my case if I could simply apply a little reverse direction via a separate pedal/lever, I'd be happy. </p>
Keep up the posting ....this is neat stuff..</p>
<div style="clear: both;"></div>
[/quote]</p>
</p>
Imagine if the RTV had a shuttle shift lever and coasted to a stop if you completely lifted off the pedal....</p>
</p>
Those two things alone would be worth a lot of capability/driveability. Anyone that has never fought to get the machine out of forward, then into reverse, or out of reverse and back into forward hasn't driven one much, or doesn't work it hard. That, or there was a MAJOR design change somewhere along the way.</p>
A shuttle would be NICE! And it seems like it would be SO easy to do. I started looking up shift mechanisms today, as well as checking out some actuators/servos in case my currently sourced model isn't up to the task.</p>
</p>
I may take the bed off and run a temprary rod to the lever so that the hydro is not connected to the pedal and I can adjust it with my hand, forward and backward as I see fit sometime soon.</p>
I would be playing with this stuff already if I could locate my damned workshop manual I bought when I replaced the CV shaft.</p>
Knowing how it works gives me hope that I can make it do much more than it does currently. And if it breaks the motor shaft/blows the case or something, a stronger replacement would just be a CNC mill away.</p>
Kubota Kanook
Member
[quote user="Charles"]I may take the bed off and run a temprary rod to the lever so that the hydro is not connected to the pedal and I can adjust it with my hand, forward and backward as I see fit sometime soon.[/quote]</p>
I'm anxious to hear the results of your experiment quoted above. </p>
I can see that depending on the application the machine is being used for, the ability to shuttle shift may or may not be of concern to some operators. On my property, it is next to impossible to travel through the woods without doing forward/reverse manuvers every 50ft to get around trees. Also 3 pt turn arounds are the norm. In snow plowing inmy case its continuous forward/reverse motion. If I were hauling longer distances or doing stuff like spraying fence lines or such, the ability to shuttle would be of little concern. I know some of the members are in the 2 to 3 thousand hr usage on their hour meters so they are certainly being worked...just not in the same manner that mine is..</p>
Keep up the good info...</p>
I'm anxious to hear the results of your experiment quoted above. </p>
I can see that depending on the application the machine is being used for, the ability to shuttle shift may or may not be of concern to some operators. On my property, it is next to impossible to travel through the woods without doing forward/reverse manuvers every 50ft to get around trees. Also 3 pt turn arounds are the norm. In snow plowing inmy case its continuous forward/reverse motion. If I were hauling longer distances or doing stuff like spraying fence lines or such, the ability to shuttle would be of little concern. I know some of the members are in the 2 to 3 thousand hr usage on their hour meters so they are certainly being worked...just not in the same manner that mine is..</p>
Keep up the good info...</p>
zenchal26
Member
</p>
<span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 10pt;">Finished adjusting the shift cables,she shifts smooth again and it’s pretty simple to do.</span></p>
<span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 10pt;">Before you get started make sure the cables under the hood connected to the shifter are in the middle of the threds where the jam nuts are and are tight. Also check the ball joints for tightness.</span></p>
<span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 10pt;">1. Put the shifter in the cab into neutraland all the way to the passenger side bungee it so it can't move.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Make sure you are dead nuts in the middle of the opening that the shifter goes through don’t rely on the N mark.<o
></o></span></p>
<span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 10pt;">2.Take the big cable off the shift lever that is vertical on the side of the Trans and the smaller cableoff the secondary shift lever on top of the Trans.<o></o></span></p>
<span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 10pt;">3.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Now move the shift lever on the side of the Trans back and forth you will feel three clicks total put the lever in the middle position and adjust the cable so it fits perfect into the hole in the lever.<o></o></span></p>
<span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 10pt;">4.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>take the secondary lever on top of the Trans and move it side to side, it will return to the drivers side on its own due to spring tension. Adjust this cable so it fits perfectly into the hole in the lever.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>You’re done.<o></o></span></p>
<span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 10pt;">This is how the book tells you to set the secondary lever but I found that it was still sticking going into first and rev.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Not much but it was still sticking.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>So here is how I set the secondary cable.<o></o></span></p>
<span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 10pt;">4a.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>With the cable off the secondary lever take the bungee off the shifter, keeping the shifter in the neutral position slide it to thedrivers sideand bungee it so it wont move.<o></o></span></p>
<span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 10pt;">4b. This is where a third hand would be handy, take the secondary lever on the top of the Trans and slide it all the way to the passenger side and hold it there. While the secondary lever is held to the passenger side, adjust the cable so it fits perfectly into the hole in the lever.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>You’re done.<o></o></span></p>
<span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 10pt;">Hope this helps. <o></o></span></p>
</p>
<span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 10pt;">Finished adjusting the shift cables,she shifts smooth again and it’s pretty simple to do.</span></p>
<span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 10pt;">Before you get started make sure the cables under the hood connected to the shifter are in the middle of the threds where the jam nuts are and are tight. Also check the ball joints for tightness.</span></p>
<span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 10pt;">1. Put the shifter in the cab into neutraland all the way to the passenger side bungee it so it can't move.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Make sure you are dead nuts in the middle of the opening that the shifter goes through don’t rely on the N mark.<o
></o></span></p><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 10pt;">2.Take the big cable off the shift lever that is vertical on the side of the Trans and the smaller cableoff the secondary shift lever on top of the Trans.<o
></o></span></p><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 10pt;">3.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Now move the shift lever on the side of the Trans back and forth you will feel three clicks total put the lever in the middle position and adjust the cable so it fits perfect into the hole in the lever.<o
></o></span></p><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 10pt;">4.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>take the secondary lever on top of the Trans and move it side to side, it will return to the drivers side on its own due to spring tension. Adjust this cable so it fits perfectly into the hole in the lever.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>You’re done.<o
></o></span></p><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 10pt;">This is how the book tells you to set the secondary lever but I found that it was still sticking going into first and rev.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Not much but it was still sticking.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>So here is how I set the secondary cable.<o
></o></span></p><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 10pt;">4a.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>With the cable off the secondary lever take the bungee off the shifter, keeping the shifter in the neutral position slide it to thedrivers sideand bungee it so it wont move.<o
></o></span></p><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 10pt;">4b. This is where a third hand would be handy, take the secondary lever on the top of the Trans and slide it all the way to the passenger side and hold it there. While the secondary lever is held to the passenger side, adjust the cable so it fits perfectly into the hole in the lever.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>You’re done.<o
></o></span></p><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 10pt;">Hope this helps. <o
></o></span></p></p>
Charles, Zen and othersl:</p>
Am I getting an education here or what????????????? Thanks you so much for the efforts and the time y'all have spent here on the Forum teaching us about the RTV and its inner workings. </p>
While still a RTV wannabe I would liketo passalongmy perspective as a guy sitting on the sidelines. As most of the Forum regulars know,I recently purchased a new John Deere 110 TLB (Tractor-Loader-Backhoe) It cost considerable money but it was a piece of equipment I have needed (wanted) for a long time. As far as operating it, it usesshuttle type shifting with a low, medium and high range. Two pedals on the floorboard make it go either forward or reverse - in any range. To use: Start diesel engine, move range selector to either L-M or H, set hand throttle to RPM needed. and mash the pedal forward or reverse. The further you mash the foot pedals the faster the tractor goes. Let up on the pedal and the tractor stops and holds. It has all the power one might expect from a 40hp diesel and will even go forward or backward up and down hills in any gear. (Little humor there.) It also has selectable4x2 or 4x4 with differential rear axle lock and differential left and right braking.</p>
I'm not trying to compare apples and oranges with the JDtractor andKubota RTV and I'm certainly NOT trying to sell John Deere. Just trying to make a point and I'm not putting RTV's down either becauseI still plan on buying one sometime in the future.My point being, the JD does what it was supposed to do and does it well. My question, does the RTVhave the best possible engineering built into it ? Points to ponder: abrupt engine braking, breaking cv joints, leaking fuel caps, air flilters located near wheels, 1100 door windows you can't open,shifting difficulties, power limitations caused by whatever- just to mention a few. I realize there are aftermarket 'work arounds', but shouldn't some of these problems been caught in the design stages?</p>
It's great to learn of all the different perspectives from real life owners and operators. I only would hope that Kubota, the dealers, engineers, designers and manufacturers of the RTV Seriesare listening and learningas well.</p>
Keifer, a RTV wannabe</p>
Am I getting an education here or what????????????? Thanks you so much for the efforts and the time y'all have spent here on the Forum teaching us about the RTV and its inner workings. </p>
While still a RTV wannabe I would liketo passalongmy perspective as a guy sitting on the sidelines. As most of the Forum regulars know,I recently purchased a new John Deere 110 TLB (Tractor-Loader-Backhoe) It cost considerable money but it was a piece of equipment I have needed (wanted) for a long time. As far as operating it, it usesshuttle type shifting with a low, medium and high range. Two pedals on the floorboard make it go either forward or reverse - in any range. To use: Start diesel engine, move range selector to either L-M or H, set hand throttle to RPM needed. and mash the pedal forward or reverse. The further you mash the foot pedals the faster the tractor goes. Let up on the pedal and the tractor stops and holds. It has all the power one might expect from a 40hp diesel and will even go forward or backward up and down hills in any gear. (Little humor there.) It also has selectable4x2 or 4x4 with differential rear axle lock and differential left and right braking.</p>
I'm not trying to compare apples and oranges with the JDtractor andKubota RTV and I'm certainly NOT trying to sell John Deere. Just trying to make a point and I'm not putting RTV's down either becauseI still plan on buying one sometime in the future.My point being, the JD does what it was supposed to do and does it well. My question, does the RTVhave the best possible engineering built into it ? Points to ponder: abrupt engine braking, breaking cv joints, leaking fuel caps, air flilters located near wheels, 1100 door windows you can't open,shifting difficulties, power limitations caused by whatever- just to mention a few. I realize there are aftermarket 'work arounds', but shouldn't some of these problems been caught in the design stages?</p>
It's great to learn of all the different perspectives from real life owners and operators. I only would hope that Kubota, the dealers, engineers, designers and manufacturers of the RTV Seriesare listening and learningas well.</p>
Keifer, a RTV wannabe</p>
[quote user="tommy 20/69"]</p>
yea by the time i get one if i have a problem with it </p>
<div style="CLEAR: both"></div>
[/quote]</p>
If you don't hurry up ~~~ By the time you get one, we will not even need this forum for a fix, they will done have all the bugs out of them ~~~~</p>
OR, on the flip side of this, with all this about the " clunkers " being traded in >>>> hell, they might give you some kind of " BONUS BUCKS " with your Rhino and double the stimulas , heck , they might trade even, as long as you don't use that dealer down in Thibodaux, he's a ass >>>>></p>
yea by the time i get one if i have a problem with it </p>
<div style="CLEAR: both"></div>
[/quote]</p>
If you don't hurry up ~~~ By the time you get one, we will not even need this forum for a fix, they will done have all the bugs out of them ~~~~</p>
OR, on the flip side of this, with all this about the " clunkers " being traded in >>>> hell, they might give you some kind of " BONUS BUCKS " with your Rhino and double the stimulas , heck , they might trade even, as long as you don't use that dealer down in Thibodaux, he's a ass >>>>></p>
thomasnchy
Member
I totally agree, I can see a lot of improvements that could be made on the RTV. On the same hand, I have a 2550 John Deer tractor with a Woods loader, and to cure a common problem of trans. linesfailing I had to seperate the tractor, drill and tap a 1/4 inch threaded stopper into the transmission case... a lot of work for a simple cure. (And that tractor is 12 years old). ... Yes, I compaired apples to Beer, but it could go on and on. In 12 years the RTV may just be what everyone thinks it should be... but I doubt it. </p>
</p>
I honestly believe that the RTV was intended for simple ag use. For that, they (for the mostpart) have done exceptional. ...And I have some beef with Kubota, believe that. Shifting a hydrostatic trans, is not possible.. in its current form. It's select a gear and go. The rear "propeller shafts" are beyond ignorant.. you cant grease the greaseable u-joints near the hub without removing the entire assembly... yes that was dumb. There are a lot of little things wrong with them... I have a list. And,after stealing a shop manual from the local dealership, I can understand the frustration of servicing these machines..."if the torx head fastner is loosend by sharp force, it may be necessary to put you weight on it too loosen hard fastner"... actual Kubota service literature. </p>
I am a little partial to the RTV, basically because I'm supposed to work on them and I dont have too.</p>
</p>
For what it is intended to do... it does it well. I am still waiting on the "turbo" demonstration for the 900, I'm curious. </p>
</p>
</p>
I honestly believe that the RTV was intended for simple ag use. For that, they (for the mostpart) have done exceptional. ...And I have some beef with Kubota, believe that. Shifting a hydrostatic trans, is not possible.. in its current form. It's select a gear and go. The rear "propeller shafts" are beyond ignorant.. you cant grease the greaseable u-joints near the hub without removing the entire assembly... yes that was dumb. There are a lot of little things wrong with them... I have a list. And,after stealing a shop manual from the local dealership, I can understand the frustration of servicing these machines..."if the torx head fastner is loosend by sharp force, it may be necessary to put you weight on it too loosen hard fastner"... actual Kubota service literature. </p>
I am a little partial to the RTV, basically because I'm supposed to work on them and I dont have too.</p>
</p>
For what it is intended to do... it does it well. I am still waiting on the "turbo" demonstration for the 900, I'm curious. </p>
</p>
[quote user="thomasnchy"]"if the torx head fastner is loosend by sharp force, it may be necessary to put you weight on it too loosen hard fastner"... actual Kubota service literature. [/quote] They have a funny way of saying things. I needed to take a chisel to loosen the metric allen head cap screws that hold the rear guard on. The local dealer said they just bend them down out of the way to change the filter! I replaced them with hex head bolts when I put it back together. They could do a lot to improve things if they would take the time to get feedback from owners of their early models. Like most corporate execs I believe once they have your money they lose sight of what folks want in a vehicle. An engineer should have to service a vehicle and they would come up with better ways of getting to things. My local dealers are a parts source and that is about all. I thought the kubota tractors were built fairly well but have encountered a few folks who are disappointed with their newer models. hopefully it will improve soon.</p>